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Post by Ethereal on Jul 21, 2023 22:37:53 GMT -5
Another north to south, eastern Australian climate battle. But this time with the more populous or renowned cities. Excluded Wollongong and Newcastle as they're already pretty similar to Sydney.  |
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Post by massiveshibe on Jul 21, 2023 23:23:54 GMT -5
Port Macquarie. Not bad.
The urban heat island effect in Sydney is insane. Port Macquarie is further north but the lows are about 2 degrees colder than Sydney.
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Post by tommyFL on Jul 21, 2023 23:51:45 GMT -5
Port Macquarie
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Post by greysrigging on Jul 22, 2023 1:04:20 GMT -5
Port Macquarie. Not bad. The urban heat island effect in Sydney is insane. Port Macquarie is further north but the lows are about 2 degrees colder than Sydney. I doubt it's UHI ... simply the older Airport site at Port Macquarie is inland somewhat from the ocean side Town site, and was a renowned frosty place compared to in town ( record low min in town -0.6c in July 1918 and 0.0c in June 1920. Sydney Airport is also pretty close to the coast, so unlikely to record many sub zero mins... record is -0.1c in July 1943. And to use the official BoM site for Sydney at Observatory Hill in the Sydney CBD right on the Harbour, the record min is 2.1c in June 1932. PS - I never take Wikibox data as gospel truth.... the one posted for Sydney Airport has a few errors in it if you look up the official BoM data for the site. Likely because its 30 year normals ie 1991-2020 rather than the POR since 1939 |
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Post by greysrigging on Jul 22, 2023 1:19:38 GMT -5
Tropical Cairns....superb East Coast AU climate.... mostly green countryside all year round...
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Post by Ethereal on Jul 22, 2023 1:29:22 GMT -5
Port Macquarie. Not bad. The urban heat island effect in Sydney is insane. Port Macquarie is further north but the lows are about 2 degrees colder than Sydney. I doubt it's UHI ... simply the older Airport site at Port Macquarie is inland somewhat from the ocean side Town site, and was a renowned frosty place compared to in town ( record low min in town -0.6c in July 1918 and 0.0c in June 1920.Sydney Airport is also pretty close to the coast, so unlikely to record many sub zero mins... record is -0.1c in July 1943. And to use the official BoM site for Sydney at Observatory Hill in the Sydney CBD right on the Harbour, the record min is 2.1c in June 1932. PS - I never take Wikibox data as gospel truth.... the one posted for Sydney Airport has a few errors in it if you look up the official BoM data for the site. Likely because its 30 year normals ie 1991-2020 rather than the POR since 1939 About that, I noticed that the mid north coast NSW towns can get pretty cold at nights (even colder than us in western Sydney). They're not that inland. So what's the deal? Is it the mountain temperature inversion thingy? It's impressive to me. Kempsey is the ''worst offender'' with 22C highs and 1C lows. Yikes. |
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Post by Ethereal on Jul 22, 2023 3:10:52 GMT -5
Port Macquarie. Not bad. The urban heat island effect in Sydney is insane. Port Macquarie is further north but the lows are about 2 degrees colder than Sydney. I doubt it's UHI ... simply the older Airport site at Port Macquarie is inland somewhat from the ocean side Town site, and was a renowned frosty place compared to in town ( record low min in town -0.6c in July 1918 and 0.0c in June 1920. Sydney Airport is also pretty close to the coast, so unlikely to record many sub zero mins... record is -0.1c in July 1943. And to use the official BoM site for Sydney at Observatory Hill in the Sydney CBD right on the Harbour, the record min is 2.1c in June 1932. PS - I never take Wikibox data as gospel truth.... the one posted for Sydney Airport has a few errors in it if you look up the official BoM data for the site. Likely because its 30 year normals ie 1991-2020 rather than the POR since 1939Just checked it. It's pretty much accurate and goes by the 30 years normals for the averages, and the historical one for records. |
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Post by Beercules on Jul 22, 2023 3:28:36 GMT -5
I think I would have to pick Brisbane. It is the quintessential REAL subtropical climate. It does well in the storm department, way more and far higher quality than in Cairns.
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Post by greysrigging on Jul 22, 2023 3:50:36 GMT -5
I doubt it's UHI ... simply the older Airport site at Port Macquarie is inland somewhat from the ocean side Town site, and was a renowned frosty place compared to in town ( record low min in town -0.6c in July 1918 and 0.0c in June 1920. Sydney Airport is also pretty close to the coast, so unlikely to record many sub zero mins... record is -0.1c in July 1943. And to use the official BoM site for Sydney at Observatory Hill in the Sydney CBD right on the Harbour, the record min is 2.1c in June 1932. PS - I never take Wikibox data as gospel truth.... the one posted for Sydney Airport has a few errors in it if you look up the official BoM data for the site. Likely because its 30 year normals ie 1991-2020 rather than the POR since 1939Just checked it. It's pretty much accurate and goes by the 30 years normals for the averages, and the historical one for records. Well, this is from the BoM Climate Data Site using all available records since 1939 I think it's somewhat disingenious to use all available records without using all available climate data for mean averages... IMO 30 years is the blink of an eye climtically...... the site POR goes back to 1939.... ?   |
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Post by greysrigging on Jul 22, 2023 4:25:28 GMT -5
I doubt it's UHI ... simply the older Airport site at Port Macquarie is inland somewhat from the ocean side Town site, and was a renowned frosty place compared to in town ( record low min in town -0.6c in July 1918 and 0.0c in June 1920.Sydney Airport is also pretty close to the coast, so unlikely to record many sub zero mins... record is -0.1c in July 1943. And to use the official BoM site for Sydney at Observatory Hill in the Sydney CBD right on the Harbour, the record min is 2.1c in June 1932. PS - I never take Wikibox data as gospel truth.... the one posted for Sydney Airport has a few errors in it if you look up the official BoM data for the site. Likely because its 30 year normals ie 1991-2020 rather than the POR since 1939 About that, I noticed that the mid north coast NSW towns can get pretty cold at nights (even colder than us in western Sydney). They're not that inland. So what's the deal? Is it the mountain temperature inversion thingy? It's impressive to me. Kempsey is the ''worst offender'' with 22C highs and 1C lows. Yikes. Here's some Western Sydney record lows Bankstown -4.0c Prospect Reservoir -0.8c Parramatta -1.0c Canterberry Racecourse -1.6c Badgery's Creek -4.5c Camden -6.0c Penrith Lakes -1.6c Campbelltown -3.7c |
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Post by ShaheenHassan on Jul 22, 2023 4:56:06 GMT -5
Cairns.
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Post by AJ1013 on Jul 22, 2023 6:30:31 GMT -5
Port Macquarie
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Post by St. Middleway on Jul 22, 2023 7:29:06 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Cairns is out for its autistic summer rainfall (plus heat+humidity). Brisbane and Port Mac too hot and humid, and no winter. That would leave Sydney, though there is still not much to be desired.
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Post by antares on Jul 22, 2023 7:33:00 GMT -5
Good thread.
I'm going with Brisbane as it has the best overall temperatures and the most sensible precipitation.
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Post by Benfxmth on Jul 22, 2023 8:05:01 GMT -5
It's gonna be Brisbane. Best compromise of temps, precip and storms.
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Post by Ethereal on Jul 22, 2023 8:10:55 GMT -5
Just checked it. It's pretty much accurate and goes by the 30 years normals for the averages, and the historical one for records. Well, this is from the BoM Climate Data Site using all available records since 1939 I think it's somewhat disingenious to use all available records without using all available climate data for mean averages... IMO 30 years is the blink of an eye climtically...... the site POR goes back to 1939.... ? To be fair, most US and AUS climates use the 30 year normals either way. Historical climate data that includes mean averages is more disingenuous to me (not counting historical records), because climate was a bit different 100+ years ago. And this is coming from someone who questions some aspects of climate change btw. Not gonna speak for other places, but Sydney has warmed up a degree or two within the last century, and so we can't rely on averages from 80+ years ago. So is it really insincere to exclude late 19th century/early 20th century average temperature data? I don't think so IMO. 🤷♀️ Look at Sydney's late 19th century-early 20th century normals (a far cry from the normals today):  |
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Post by Ethereal on Jul 22, 2023 8:14:17 GMT -5
About that, I noticed that the mid north coast NSW towns can get pretty cold at nights (even colder than us in western Sydney). They're not that inland. So what's the deal? Is it the mountain temperature inversion thingy? It's impressive to me. Kempsey is the ''worst offender'' with 22C highs and 1C lows. Yikes. Here's some Western Sydney record lows Bankstown -4.0c Prospect Reservoir -0.8c Parramatta -1.0c Canterberry Racecourse -1.6c Badgery's Creek -4.5c Camden -6.0c Penrith Lakes -1.6c Campbelltown -3.7c I know we've gotten such freezing record lows. But my point is the mid north coast is more prone to constant <5C nights, considering that they're more closer to the ocean, whereas we usually range between 5C-7C. Taree and Kempsey are such examples with cold 4C nights and relatively warm 20C days, and yet they're not that far from the ocean. |
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Post by greysrigging on Jul 22, 2023 16:59:06 GMT -5
Well, this is from the BoM Climate Data Site using all available records since 1939 I think it's somewhat disingenious to use all available records without using all available climate data for mean averages... IMO 30 years is the blink of an eye climtically...... the site POR goes back to 1939.... ? To be fair, most US and AUS climates use the 30 year normals either way. Historical climate data that includes mean averages is more disingenuous to me (not counting historical records), because climate was a bit different 100+ years ago. And this is coming from someone who questions some aspects of climate change btw. Not gonna speak for other places, but Sydney has warmed up a degree or two within the last century, and so we can't rely on averages from 80+ years ago. So is it really insincere to exclude late 19th century/early 20th century average temperature data? I don't think so IMO. 🤷♀️ Look at Sydney's late 19th century-early 20th century normals (a far cry from the normals today): There's really not too many places in AU that the BoM has digitised the older historical data.... many have been done only as far back as 1957, especially in regional locations. Now, while I like the whole modern era AWS, the placement of such sites at Airports etc well out of the town environments often gives a whole new data set somewhat different to the original sites at Post Offices within regional centers....off the top of my head I can think of three glaring examples.... Albany town site and Albany Airport where the town site is close to the ocean and the Airport is 12klm inland. And up on the New England Ranges both Armidale and Glen Innes AWS are not exactly representative of what one sees in town, especially on frosty winter nights. Personally, I view a lot of pre 1910 records ( especially those outside of the major cities ) with some skepticism. Having said that, I prefer the longer POR....imo 30 years is simply too short a period. Will be good when the BoM officially releases the 1991-2020 averages....atm one can only access the 1961-1990 averages  |
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Post by Ethereal on Jul 22, 2023 21:21:57 GMT -5
To be fair, most US and AUS climates use the 30 year normals either way. Historical climate data that includes mean averages is more disingenuous to me (not counting historical records), because climate was a bit different 100+ years ago. And this is coming from someone who questions some aspects of climate change btw. Not gonna speak for other places, but Sydney has warmed up a degree or two within the last century, and so we can't rely on averages from 80+ years ago. So is it really insincere to exclude late 19th century/early 20th century average temperature data? I don't think so IMO. 🤷♀️ Look at Sydney's late 19th century-early 20th century normals (a far cry from the normals today): There's really not too many places in AU that the BoM has digitised the older historical data.... many have been done only as far back as 1957, especially in regional locations. Now, while I like the whole modern era AWS, the placement of such sites at Airports etc well out of the town environments often gives a whole new data set somewhat different to the original sites at Post Offices within regional centers....off the top of my head I can think of three glaring examples.... Albany town site and Albany Airport where the town site is close to the ocean and the Airport is 12klm inland. And up on the New England Ranges both Armidale and Glen Innes AWS are not exactly representative of what one sees in town, especially on frosty winter nights. Personally, I view a lot of pre 1910 records ( especially those outside of the major cities ) with some skepticism. Having said that, I prefer the longer POR....imo 30 years is simply too short a period. Will be good when the BoM officially releases the 1991-2020 averages....atm one can only access the 1961-1990 averages Fair point, especially the highlighted parts. That is exactly why I have a huge pet peeve with the exposed weather station at Observatory Hill in Sydney, which is used as the "official weather station" for us.  It is anomalously wet and mild overall - A huge misrepresentation of Sydney as a whole, as most of us don't live on the f***ng harbour. I prefer the Airport site for Sydney (not gonna speak for other cities) as it's more in line with the averages of other areas/suburbs in Sydney. And yeah, pre 1910 records may have been inaccurate (Sydney's average winter high of 14C seems fishy). But who knows, maybe the climate did change drastically since then? |
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Post by melonside421 on Jul 23, 2023 13:13:13 GMT -5
I could chose Sydney for a better agricultural climate, but Port Macquarie looks more seasonal/interesting with more chance of snow?
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It is anomalously wet and mild overall - A huge misrepresentation of Sydney as a whole, as most of us don't live on the f***ng harbour. I prefer the Airport site for Sydney (not gonna speak for other cities) as it's more in line with the averages of other areas/suburbs in Sydney. 