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Post by The Gior from Ipanema on May 22, 2018 15:12:49 GMT -5
Everyone here seems to have a slightly different idea of what a 4-season climate is. Some people consider any climate as four season, while others think that you need to have a cold enough winter, or a warm enough summer for it. What is your criteria?
Not set in stone, but I think something like this
Winter (needs to fulfill 2 of the following 3 conditions)
- Three months with average highs below 8C
- Three months with average highs below 0C
- More than 15 inches of snow a year
Summer
- Three months with average highs above 25C
Shoulder seasons
- March can't be colder than December
- September can't be warmer than June
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Post by Donar on May 22, 2018 15:26:16 GMT -5
A place has four seasons if you show me a picture of an average January, April, July and October and I don't have to ponder a second which one is which. (doesn't apply to deserts of course)
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Post by Lommaren on May 22, 2018 16:02:26 GMT -5
The Gior from Ipanema , so you essentially argue that Scandinavia with endless daylight and five months above 10°C in the bottom third has no place with four seasons? When people think four seasons, this region of the world is fairly stereotypical after all  I just think: Summer above 15°C in means for the warmest month and winter means below 5°C in its coldest month. If narrower than that, not a four-season climate. So; Tromsø and Charlotte aren't really four-season climates in my opinion, but Rovaniemi is.
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Post by alex992 on May 22, 2018 16:07:19 GMT -5
Pretty much in agreement with @donar. Somewhere where you can go during those 4 months and clearly tell which time of year/season it is. Although at its very purest definition I'd say anywhere that goes bare in winter, blooms in spring, summer green, and has fall colors in autumn etc. Anywhere that has discernible seasons is 4-season IMO. For example, I'd easily say Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis, Nashville, etc are four season climates, even though they err towards summer and clearly warm-dominated. On the flip side, somewhere like Winnipeg or Fairbanks are also clear four season climates, but erring towards the cold side. Even somewhere like Verkhoyansk or Oymyakon are four season climates in my estimation.
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Post by alex992 on May 22, 2018 16:22:41 GMT -5
The Gior from Ipanema , so you essentially argue that Scandinavia with endless daylight and five months above 10°C in the bottom third has no place with four seasons? When people think four seasons, this region of the world is fairly stereotypical after all I just think: Summer above 15°C in means for the warmest month and winter means below 5°C in its coldest month. If narrower than that, not a four-season climate. So; Tromsø and Charlotte aren't really four-season climates in my opinion, but Rovaniemi is. How can you say Charlotte isn't a four season climate when it's range is far greater than 5-15 C? Also, Charlotte averages 4.6 C in January and 25.9 C in July, it's well within that very arbitrary "range" you drew up. So someplace with a 7 C mean temp in January and a 27 C mean temp in July isn't four seasonal, but someplace with a 4 C mean in January and 16 C in July is? That's stupid. |
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Post by Lommaren on May 22, 2018 16:24:06 GMT -5
I simply thought it was slightly higher than that.
Also check the thread title; it's about arbitrary ranges. Either or was my requirement. If a climate has both a summer warmer than 15°C and a winter colder than 5°C it passes.
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Post by alex992 on May 22, 2018 16:26:52 GMT -5
Your arbitrary ranges are dumb. And the thread isn't about arbitrary ranges, it's not asking to put a number on the temps that constitute a season. Gior did it in the OP but he wasn't asking that for the subsequent responses. Your response makes no sense. Donar and myself provided good responses without arbitrary numbers.
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Post by The Gior from Ipanema on May 22, 2018 16:27:05 GMT -5
The Gior from Ipanema , so you essentially argue that Scandinavia with endless daylight and five months above 10°C in the bottom third has no place with four seasons? When people think four seasons, this region of the world is fairly stereotypical after all I just think: Summer above 15°C in means for the warmest month and winter means below 5°C in its coldest month. If narrower than that, not a four-season climate. So; Tromsø and Charlotte aren't really four-season climates in my opinion, but Rovaniemi is. Scandinavia does have boring crummers, doesn't click the boxes for me. Not the only place. Upstate NY has shitty lukewarm summers like Buffalo or Binghamton  |
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Post by alex992 on May 22, 2018 16:29:52 GMT -5
I simply thought it was slightly higher than that.
Also check the thread title; it's about arbitrary ranges. Either or was my requirement. If a climate has both a summer warmer than 15°C and a winter colder than 5°C it passes. Yes, and this is a weather forum. So do your research before commenting. |
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Post by alex992 on May 22, 2018 16:31:30 GMT -5
The Gior from Ipanema , so you essentially argue that Scandinavia with endless daylight and five months above 10°C in the bottom third has no place with four seasons? When people think four seasons, this region of the world is fairly stereotypical after all I just think: Summer above 15°C in means for the warmest month and winter means below 5°C in its coldest month. If narrower than that, not a four-season climate. So; Tromsø and Charlotte aren't really four-season climates in my opinion, but Rovaniemi is. Scandinavia does have boring crummers, doesn't click the boxes for me. Not the only place. Upstate NY has shitty lukewarm summers like Buffalo or Binghamton To be fair, I would easily say Scandinavia is a four seasonal climate, even if it's summers are lacking. You would never mistake July for January anywhere, except the most maritime places in Norway and even then not really. Scandi is just a climate that errs towards the cooler side, but a seasonal climate nonetheless. I'd even say the UK is four seasonal, though quite mild in all seasons. |
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Post by knot on May 22, 2018 16:57:17 GMT -5
In order for a climate to be four-seasonal, the seasons need to feel distinct; you can easily tell which season it is, so to speak. For example: tropical climates like Singapore or tundra maritime climates like South Georgia do not have distinct seasons, and are pretty much either an everlasting summer (in the former), or an everlasting winter (in the latter), respectively.
Four-seasonal climates most certainly do not have to classify as continental to comprise four seasons.
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Post by Steelernation on May 22, 2018 17:23:23 GMT -5
Anything that you’d notice the difference. Like you’d notice the difference between a 75/60 month and a 90/75 month or between a 50/40 and 62/50 months but not so much for a climate with an 85/70 month and a 90/75 month.
Miami = 4 seasons
Torshavn = 4 seasons
Eureka = borderline
Singapore = no
La Paz = no
Macquarie island = no
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 18:48:46 GMT -5
First image that comes to my mind is a continental climate with cold icy winters and hot humid summers.
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Post by alex992 on May 22, 2018 20:03:28 GMT -5
IMO, the archetype for a four-season climate is a place like Omaha or Des Moines. Cold, icy, snowy winters, quickly warming up springs (with March being cool, April mild, and May warm), hot and humid summers that are warm enough to hit the pool and also get thunderstorms, quickly cooling down falls (with September being warm, October mild, and November cool). Also, not much in the sense of seasonal delay as well.
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Post by Morningrise on May 22, 2018 22:35:25 GMT -5
Pretty much in agreement with @donar. Somewhere where you can go during those 4 months and clearly tell which time of year/season it is. Although at its very purest definition I'd say anywhere that goes bare in winter, blooms in spring, summer green, and has fall colors in autumn etc. Anywhere that has discernible seasons is 4-season IMO. In order for a climate to be four-seasonal, the seasons need to feel distinct; you can easily tell which season it is, so to speak. For example: tropical climates like Singapore or tundra maritime climates like South Georgia do not have distinct seasons, and are pretty much either an everlasting summer (in the former), or an everlasting winter (in the latter), respectively. Four-seasonal climates most certainly do not have to classify as continental to comprise four seasons. Agreed strongly with these two posts. Seasons being easily distinguishable from each other is the biggest criteria for a four-seasons climate for me. Alex makes a great point about the cycle of vegetation through the year, that's one of the biggest defining characteristics of seasons in my opinion. And having lived at high latitudes my whole life, I would also add day length as a significant factor in seasonality. I don't get why some people define seasons purely by their temperatures and nothing else, as if the state of the vegetation or the amount of daylight has no impact on scenery, comfort, mood, etc. They're just as important as temperatures when it comes to defining distinct seasons, in my opinion. And to add to the examples already in this thread, I will say that Vancouver felt like a solidly four-seasons climate during the years I lived there, even if it doesn't appear super seasonal on paper. |
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Post by jgtheone on May 23, 2018 6:08:00 GMT -5
I like Alex's description too. For example, even though places like Melbourne and Vancouver are obviously not as extreme as most European and North American climates, they are still 4-season as they experience a change in vegetation throughout the year with temperatures differing enough to cause a noticeable change in comfort.
Assigning arbitrary numbers to each season is something I used to do, but then realised that it's not that simple.
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Post by Hiromant on May 23, 2018 8:50:53 GMT -5
I agree with Donar's description but for me a winter has to have permanent snow cover as well. Anything less is half-assing it and is basically an extension of fall.
Morningrise'is latitude point is also a good one. Some low latitude mountain climate may meet other criteria but when the winter has high sun angles and sunshine hours it doesn't exactly feel wintry compared to more polar locations.
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Post by Hlidskjalf on May 23, 2018 13:03:10 GMT -5
In my opinion four seasons are:
Winter: avg mean below 0. The days are cold, often snowy and it's uncomfortable to be outside for longer times without strenuous physical activity. It typically lasts from mid November till mid March here in Oslo.
Spring: avg mean between 0 and 10, highs between 5 and 15c. The days are more sunny and the snow is melting while the grass, trees and other plants are getting greener. Last from the end of March till the beginning of may.
Summer: Avg mean above 10 and many daytime highs above 20c. Nature is green and the bugs are everywhere. Often heavy rain in the afternoon. Lasts from mid May till mid September
Autumn: Avg mean between 0 and 10. The leaves change colour and it's getting more rainy, grey and depressing. Lasts from late September till the beginning of November.
Other warmer climates are different and can have 2 or 3 seasons. I've been to Rome in January and it felt like Oslo in late April, so I guess Rome has a spring, long summer, autumn and then spring.
Norilsk on the other hand has 4 distinct seasons but the length of each season, except one, are drastically shortened. Spring lasts from early June till late June. Summer is in July, autumn is August till mid September, and winter from mid September till late May. It is only in 4 months you can go outside without risking you life.
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Post by srfoskey on May 24, 2018 11:03:09 GMT -5
I like Alex992's definition the most. On the other hand if you're putting arbitrary numbers on things, I feel like the following definition has way too low a threshold for summer. In my opinion four seasons are: Winter: avg mean below 0. The days are cold, often snowy and it's uncomfortable to be outside for longer times without strenuous physical activity. It typically lasts from mid November till mid March here in Oslo. Spring: avg mean between 0 and 10, highs between 5 and 15c. The days are more sunny and the snow is melting while the grass, trees and other plants are getting greener. Last from the end of March till the beginning of may. Summer: Avg mean above 10 and many daytime highs above 20c. Nature is green and the bugs are everywhere. Often heavy rain in the afternoon. Lasts from mid May till mid September Autumn: Avg mean between 0 and 10. The leaves change colour and it's getting more rainy, grey and depressing. Lasts from late September till the beginning of November. Other warmer climates are different and can have 2 or 3 seasons. I've been to Rome in January and it felt like Oslo in late April, so I guess Rome has a spring, long summer, autumn and then spring. Norilsk on the other hand has 4 distinct seasons but the length of each season, except one, are drastically shortened. Spring lasts from early June till late June. Summer is in July, autumn is August till mid September, and winter from mid September till late May. It is only in 4 months you can go outside without risking you life. Where I live the average temperature exceeds 10c March 9 and doesn't fall back below it until November 16. Yet it does not look or feel at all like Oklahoma experiences eight months of summer. I think a better criterion would be avg mean above 17c and many daytime highs above 28c, with no record lows below freezing. That wouldn't quite work for mountain climates, but I think it would hold fairly well. That shortens the summer season in Oklahoma City from May 4 to October 7, with it being bounded by the first and last freezes, rather than the mean temp crossing a given threshold. Additionally, your threshold for winter seems a little on the cool side. I'd raise it to something like 4c. New York City and Philadelphia have means of around 1c but they definitely have somewhat of a winter, imo. All that being said, I definitely prefer the alex/donar definition. |
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Post by Ethereal on Apr 16, 2022 23:08:45 GMT -5
I like Alex's description too. For example, even though places like Melbourne and Vancouver are obviously not as extreme as most European and North American climates, they are still 4-season as they experience a change in vegetation throughout the year with temperatures differing enough to cause a noticeable change in comfort. Assigning arbitrary numbers to each season is something I used to do, but then realised that it's not that simple. Well, Sydney and even Brisbane experience change in vegetation throughout the seasons but we wouldn't call those four season climates (I mean as their climate goes). A four season climate should have distinct seasons IMO. Keyword is distinct: - Dry sunny summers (maybe with the odd thunder)
- Crispy autumn with some drizzle and fog making appearance later in the seasons
- Wet frosty winters with some snow (you don't have to be Buffalo NY-snowy)
- Rainy spring with sun gradually returning
I think those Dsa climates ("continental Mediterranean" as I call them) have four distinct seasons IMO.
When it comes to Australia, I'd say Albury, Bendigo and Canberra come close to having four season climates.
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