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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 16:31:52 GMT -5
The closest to the UK gets to a true subpolar oceanic climate, aside from mountaintops, is Lerwick.
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Post by Nidaros on May 27, 2018 16:37:34 GMT -5
The closest to the UK gets to a true subpolar oceanic climate, aside from mountaintops, is Lerwick. Yeah, Lerwick is very close. Only have to move like 50 m higher in the terrain above the weather station to get a true subpolar oceanic climate there. |
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Post by knot on May 27, 2018 16:49:49 GMT -5
The closest to the UK gets to a true subpolar oceanic climate, aside from mountaintops, is Lerwick. Yet many towns in Great Britain are even colder than Lerwick is, chiefly in Scotland & proper Northern England; Allenheads, Alston, Braemar, Burnhope Seat (Yad Moss Ski Resort), Dalwhinnie, Leadhills, Nenthead, Wanlockhead, Wearhead and so forth. Especially in the case with those Pennines towns, they are even squallier and snowier on average than Lerwick, owing to the Helm Wind that sweeps off Cross Fell down into those very towns. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 16:52:12 GMT -5
The closest to the UK gets to a true subpolar oceanic climate, aside from mountaintops, is Lerwick. Yet many towns in Great Britain are even colder than Lerwick is, chiefly in Scotland & proper Northern England; Allenheads, Alston, Braemar, Burnhope Seat, Dalwhinnie, Leadhills, Nenthead, Wanlockhead, Wearhead and so forth. Especially in the case with those Pennines towns, they are even squallier and snowier on average than Lerwick, owing to the Helm Wind that sweeps off Cross Fell down into those very towns. Unfortunately their averages are pushed up compared to Lerwick's because they occasionally experience something resembling summer. |
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Post by 🖕🏿Mörön🖕🏿 on May 28, 2018 0:55:41 GMT -5
A true subpolar oceanic climate with mild winters:
A subpolar oceanic climate with cold winters (for the climate type; 1961-90):
A polar oceanic climate, also known as oceanic tundra climate:
You will also notice that Braemar's annual mean temperature is right on parity with that of Tórshavn's—a true subpolar maritime climate. Thus it is a "mild-winter subpolar maritime" climate like Tórshavn, Lerwick, Bergen etc. And you know, for what it's worth, Braemar has noticeably cooler winters compared to Tórshavn (which is just due to the Faroe Islands having less land mass than Britannia). |
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Post by Ariete on May 28, 2018 9:36:35 GMT -5
I would say it's oceanic with severe subarctic influences, a borderline climate. Quickly looking at streetview it kind of reinforces it. Partly regular cool maritime vegetation, but at a bit higher elevation clearly subpolar oceanic. The summer mean is lower than in Rovaniemi (12.7C vs 13.3C), which obviously hints towards the subpolar direction.
You will also notice that Braemar's annual mean temperature is right on parity with that of Tórshavn's—a true subpolar maritime climate. Thus it is a "mild-winter subpolar maritime" climate like Tórshavn, Lerwick, Bergen etc.
Would you classify Turku as subarctic as its mean is 5.5C, clearly lower than Braemar?
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Post by Lommaren on May 28, 2018 10:07:33 GMT -5
Yeah, Lerwick is very close. Only have to move like 50 m higher in the terrain above the weather station to get a true subpolar oceanic climate there. Must be a very narrow window before it goes full-on subarctic? |
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Post by Nidaros on May 28, 2018 12:33:02 GMT -5
Yeah, Lerwick is very close. Only have to move like 50 m higher in the terrain above the weather station to get a true subpolar oceanic climate there. Must be a very narrow window before it goes full-on subarctic? Nope. It jumps the Dfc all together.
The climate zones there as you get higher in altitude will be: Lowland - Cfb like Lerwick. Above ca 120 m ASL: Cfc Above ca 200-300 m ASL: ET - tundra.
Like in the most oceanic parts of W Norway.
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Post by knot on May 28, 2018 16:16:51 GMT -5
I would say it's oceanic with severe subarctic influences, a borderline climate. Quickly looking at streetview it kind of reinforces it. Partly regular cool maritime vegetation, but at a bit higher elevation clearly subpolar oceanic. The summer mean is lower than in Rovaniemi (12.7C vs 13.3C), which obviously hints towards the subpolar direction.
You will also notice that Braemar's annual mean temperature is right on parity with that of Tórshavn's—a true subpolar maritime climate. Thus it is a "mild-winter subpolar maritime" climate like Tórshavn, Lerwick, Bergen etc.
Would you classify Turku as subarctic as its mean is 5.5C, clearly lower than Braemar?
Yes, Turku is most certainly subarctic. This is to be expected of its polar latitude. |
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Post by Ariete on May 28, 2018 16:29:11 GMT -5
Yes, Turku is most certainly subarctic. This is to be expected of its polar latitude.
Is Montreal subarctic? It is at 45N?
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Post by knot on May 28, 2018 16:34:14 GMT -5
Is Montreal subarctic? It is at 45N?
No, as its annual maximum temperature (11.5° C) is in excess of 10° C; an annual mean of 6.8° C is quite the difference to one of 5.5° C, too. Turku's annual maximum is only 9.3° C. |
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Post by Ariete on May 28, 2018 16:43:44 GMT -5
No, as its annual maximum temperature (11.5° C) is in excess of 10° C; an annual mean of 6.8° C is quite the difference to one of 5.5° C, too. Turku's annual maximum is only 9.3° C.
Yes, but the biomes are both hemiboreal and they have similar lengths of the growing season.
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Post by knot on May 28, 2018 16:57:34 GMT -5
Yes, but the biomes are both hemiboreal and they have similar lengths of the growing season.
Now that I've come to think of it, Turku is not particularly subarctic at all. My mistake...just thought its polar latitude and (fairly) long winters would render it subarctic  Maritime climates use very different standards to those of continental climates, so subarctic is not at all equivalent to subpolar maritime; the former uses winter length, growing season etc, whilst the latter uses chiefly the annual mean. |
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Post by Ariete on May 28, 2018 17:05:18 GMT -5
Now that I've come to think of it, Turku is not particularly subarctic at all. My mistake...just thought its polar latitude and (fairly) long winters would render it subarctic Maritime climates use very different standards to those of continental climates, so subarctic is not at all equivalent to subpolar maritime; the former uses winter length, growing season etc, whilst the latter uses chiefly the annual mean.
I was a bit off as well, when I look at the growing degree day totals. Montréal has a way higher sum than Turku. Quebec City and Newcastle UK have similar totals to Turku (all around 1500. Montreal has 2050.) Braemar has less than 750 though.  |
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Post by nei on May 28, 2018 17:06:04 GMT -5
Must be a very narrow window before it goes full-on subarctic? Nope. It jumps the Dfc all together.
The climate zones there as you get higher in altitude will be: Lowland - Cfb like Lerwick. Above ca 120 m ASL: Cfc Above ca 200-300 m ASL: ET - tundra. Like in the most oceanic parts of W Norway.
Coastal Norway has a treeline of only 300 m? Thought it was higher |
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Post by nei on May 28, 2018 17:09:02 GMT -5
Now that I've come to think of it, Turku is not particularly subarctic at all. My mistake...just thought its polar latitude and (fairly) long winters would render it subarctic Maritime climates use very different standards to those of continental climates, so subarctic is not at all equivalent to subpolar maritime; the former uses winter length, growing season etc, whilst the latter uses chiefly the annual mean. I was a bit off as well, when I look at the growing degree day totals. Montréal has a way higher sum than Turku. Quebec City and Newcastle UK have similar totals to Turku (all around 1500. Montreal has 2050.) Braemar has less than 750 though. wonder if growing day degrees could be a good measure of how subarctic a climate feels. Oceanic climates would have the benefit of a longer growing season while continental benefit of more summer warmth. That way you don't need different standards for maritime and continental climates. Braemar's annual mean isn't that cold; but with a cool summer and short growing season it does poorly on the growing season measure. |
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Post by Ariete on May 28, 2018 17:30:42 GMT -5
I was a bit off as well, when I look at the growing degree day totals. Montréal has a way higher sum than Turku. Quebec City and Newcastle UK have similar totals to Turku (all around 1500. Montreal has 2050.) Braemar has less than 750 though. wonder if growing day degrees could be a good measure of how subarctic a climate feels. Oceanic climates would have the benefit of a longer growing season while continental benefit of more summer warmth. That way you don't need different standards for maritime and continental climates. Braemar's annual mean isn't that cold; but with a cool summer and short growing season it does poorly on the growing season measure.
Oceanic climates benefit from a longer growing season, but in high latitudes like Scotland some of it goes to waste because of the short sunless late autumn days.
Corn is a good example. It is in small-scale production in Southern Finland, but it's more like a "let's try for fun" crop. The yields are not very good if not protected during spring. Which IMO reinforces quite well the hemiboreal classification: not quite mid-high latitude temperate, not quite subarctic.
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Post by Nidaros on May 28, 2018 17:49:39 GMT -5
Nope. It jumps the Dfc all together.
The climate zones there as you get higher in altitude will be: Lowland - Cfb like Lerwick. Above ca 120 m ASL: Cfc Above ca 200-300 m ASL: ET - tundra. Like in the most oceanic parts of W Norway.
Coastal Norway has a treeline of only 300 m? Thought it was higher The fact that it jumps the subarctic and goes straight from cfc to tundra was the similarity to the most oceanic areas. On the outer, unprotected coast/islands, treeline is at ca 300 m north of ca Trondheim, but higher in protected areas like into fjords. Treeline is at 400 m even in Tromsø as it is protected by mountanous islands. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 7:35:31 GMT -5
It's a Cfb climate on average. Would be interesting to see how many years were Cfb vs Cfc.
London's last 30 years have seen 14 Cfb, 14 Csb, 1 Cfa and 1 Dfa. It is also a Cfb climate on average.
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