|
Post by tommyFL on Jul 13, 2021 3:22:06 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a guess based on just one study done on some mountain in Switzerland. In reality, it probably varies widely by cloud cover/time of year/latitude etc. So it's safe to say the calculator will not be very accurate for high elevations. This only works for solar panels laying flat on the ground anyway doesn't it? Most solar panels don't do that, and since you don't know the angle and direction of any of these solar panels, your calculated figures are just gibberish that happens to sound reasonable in some cases. This has literally nothing to do with solar panels. For pyranometers that measure global radiation, they are mounted in the horizontal plane by definition.
|
|
|
Post by tommyFL on Jul 13, 2021 3:40:03 GMT -5
I successfully contacted Dr. R.L. Snyder, the creator of the calculator. He referred me to the source of the equations used. It's from the UN Food and Agriculture Organization " Guidelines for computing crop water requirements". The equation that relates global radiation Rₛ (the measured value), extraterrestrial radiation Rₐ (calculated), and sunshine duration is known as the Angstrom equation, shown below: The coefficients a and b are empirical and vary by location and season, and is also where the effect of elevation comes into play. In this case, approximate values of 0.25 and 0.50 are used for a and b, respectively. This is where the main source of error occurs with these calculations. Rₐ is the radiation at the top of the atmosphere, before any of it is absorbed, and is calculated based on location and time of year. My template remains essentially unchanged, except that there is no correction for elevation since the default a and b coefficients are used: climateatlas.org/SunshineHoursCalculator.xlsx
|
|
|
Post by Babu on Jul 13, 2021 3:41:57 GMT -5
This only works for solar panels laying flat on the ground anyway doesn't it? Most solar panels don't do that, and since you don't know the angle and direction of any of these solar panels, your calculated figures are just gibberish that happens to sound reasonable in some cases. This has literally nothing to do with solar panels. For pyranometers that measure global radiation, they are mounted in the horizontal plane by definition. And you're sure that all the stations you're getting radiation data from are using such pyranometers? AFAIK most non-official stations at least, just use the solar panels used to power the station itself to "measure" sun intensity.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jul 13, 2021 11:42:31 GMT -5
Some more places:
Deer Key, FL (near Key West): 2626 hours Louisville, Ga (near Augusta): 2544 hours* McFadden, TX (near Port Arthur): 2426 hours Littlefork, MN (near Int’l Falls): 2311 hours*
*These 2 places were using the template with elevation so probably more like 2400 for Littlefork and 2600 for Louisville.
|
|
|
Post by jetshnl on Jul 13, 2021 12:09:48 GMT -5
Some more places: Deer Key, FL (near Key West): 2626 hoursLouisville, Ga (near Augusta): 2544 hours*
McFadden, TX (near Port Arthur): 2426 hoursLittlefork, MN (near Int’l Falls): 2311 hours*
*These 2 places were using the template with elevation so probably more like 2400 for Littlefork and 2600 for Louisville. Would think less for Littlefork. Likely around 2200.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jul 13, 2021 12:23:52 GMT -5
Would think less for Littlefork. Likely around 2200. It’s halfway between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg which get 2121 and 2353 hours. So then low 2200s would make sense but those places are 1981-2010 and Littlefork is 2005-2021 so the periods don’t really overlap and there’s a good chance recent years are sunnier. So I’d say the 2311 is a pretty plausible value.
|
|
|
Post by Ethereal on Jul 14, 2021 5:41:41 GMT -5
This is true and I have noticed it as well with Penrith (more fog in winter and more summer storm buildup, which "clouds" things up). But I would've assumed that Sydney CBD would get more coastal cloud cover? This may be an anecdote, but I've noticed (winter) days where there the skies are partly cloudy here and virtually overcast in the CBD. Oh, and not to mention, how the CBD is around 250mm wetter than us in the west.... I've actually noticed the opposite during my time in Sydney. Many times particularly during July and August which is the sunniest time of year in Sydney, it is clear weather in the CBD/coast, with more cloud cover heading towards the Blue Mountains.I notice this as well ("Foehn effect"). But does cloud cover "spill" over the GWS metropolitan area? I thought the clouds don't make it down the mountains.
|
|
|
Post by Ethereal on Jul 14, 2021 5:48:17 GMT -5
Here's what I mean:
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jul 15, 2021 15:59:49 GMT -5
Couple more places:
Carlos Avery, MN (near Minneapolis): 2279 hours Bonners Ferry, ID: 2216 hours King Coulee, MT (near Glasgow in the NE corner): 2794 hours Las Cruces, NM: 3434 hours
The Minneapolis value seems too low but the others seem about right.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jul 19, 2021 13:01:47 GMT -5
A few more places:
Havasu, AZ (near Needles): 3741 hours Cedar, TX (near Amarillo): 2972 hours Finley, OR (near Corvallis): 2286 hours Forks, WA: 1585 hours
Wonder if these values are accurate enough to put in weatherboxes. Obviously not the official ones but like monthly summaries or the yearly weatherboxes I make.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jul 24, 2021 19:02:46 GMT -5
Couple more:
Redding, CA: 3266 hours Scipio, UT (central Utah): 3220 hours Helena, MT: 2579 hours Coville, AK (in the SW part): 1622 hours
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Aug 2, 2021 17:12:56 GMT -5
Clark, CA (near Riverside): 3154 hours Umatilla, OR (near Hermiston): 2760 hours Harbiston Meadow, CO (Grand Lake): 2650 hours Grand Portage, MN: 2122 hours
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Oct 1, 2021 23:24:56 GMT -5
Ok I think I finally found a representative station with more than a few year old POR.
I looked at all the nearby CO Ag Mesonet stations and the two closest RAWS and the Ault Mesonet station seems as good as it’ll get. It’s 17 miles due east of Fort Collins, it’ll be a bit more continental and less snowy but sunshine hours shouldn’t change too much. The nearer stations all had either inaccurate or missing data or few years.
Ault has data since 1993 with only the scattered missing month.
Here’s the averages I calculated: Month/Hours/%
Jan 170 56.9% Feb 199 66.0% Mar 260 70.1% Apr 252 63.0% May 273 60.8% Jun 318 70.4% July 323 70.6% Aug 297 69.8% Sep 267 71.6% Oct 227 66.1% Nov 181 60.9% Dec 146 50.8%
Annual 2913 hours
March is surprisingly high, but the pattern correlated with other stations. And it’s not going to be randomly high over 25 years. December might have some issues with shading as it’s suspiciously low but otherwise accurate. The 2900 hours annually is right in line with what it should be.
The sunniest complete year was 3047 hours in 2000 and the cloudiest was 2741 hours in 2009.
|
|
stickysituations333
Senior Member
i'm not a fan of heat, but something about the stickiness of subtropical climates enchants me...
Posts: 30
Location: ithaca ny
|
Post by stickysituations333 on Oct 2, 2021 13:13:41 GMT -5
Omg! I've been searching the internet for a way to calculate it for so long! I had downloaded a ton of solar radiation data from WorldClim with no way of converting it into hours of sunshine. I am so grateful for this thread
|
|
|
Post by jetshnl on Oct 2, 2021 17:05:41 GMT -5
Tommyfl where do you obtain solar radiation data from? Is there a database which has global records of this?
|
|
|
Post by tommyFL on Oct 2, 2021 17:07:38 GMT -5
Tommyfl where do you obtain solar radiation data from? Is there a database which has global records of this? Individual stations. Nationwide, the RAWS network. Locally, FAWN and SFWMD stations. In other countries, Australian and French stations measure solar radiation as well.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Oct 5, 2021 18:32:45 GMT -5
Ault clearly has shading issues in winter. I just looked at Briggsdale about 20 miles east of Ault and 37 miles from here.
The two stations are within 10 hours from February to October and Ault is sunnier than Briggsdale a few of those months. However, Briggsdale is 17, 35, and 28 hours sunnier in the other three months, which is significant by percentage. The difference is inexplicable except that Ault isn’t accurate those three months, and we don’t get 50% sun in December here so Ault is clearly the inaccurate one.
Briggsdale goes back to 2002 but has lots of missing data, mostly in the summer months. Since they’re so close in the warm season, I think using Ault March-September and Briggsdale October-February would be pretty accurate.
This method gives 3002 hours which I think is about 40-80 hours too high but none of the Fort Collins, Greeley, or RAWS stations are anywhere close to accurate and there’s nothing else closer.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jan 28, 2023 19:44:58 GMT -5
tommyFL do you know if it’s possible to turn this Rs/Rso graph into text? Would be very tedious to manually go day by day from the graph but seems like you could just count the time over like 75% (or a more accurate percentage) of Rso as sunshine hours and that would be pretty accurate.
|
|
|
Post by tommyFL on Jan 28, 2023 20:05:40 GMT -5
tommyFL do you know if it’s possible to turn this Rs/Rso graph into text? Would be very tedious to manually go day by day from the graph but seems like you could just count the time over like 75% (or a more accurate percentage) of Rso as sunshine hours and that would be pretty accurate. I don't think it's possible to download a Highcharts graph as text unless the developer has enabled that option. See how the top-right menu allows download as CSV and viewing as a data table on my site, but not on the CSU page. 142.11.236.169/php/weatherstation.phpHowever, since you can download solar radiation data at 5-min intervals, you can use that data and equation 28 ( www.fao.org/3/x0490e/x0490e07.htm#radiation) to calculate average Ra for each 5 min period. It's quite a involved calculation but it can be done. Once you have Rs/Ra, percent possible sunshine can be calculated for each observation easily. I could make another calculator to use 5-minute data, but it would take some time.
|
|
|
Post by Steelernation on Jan 28, 2023 21:15:09 GMT -5
However, since you can download solar radiation data at 5-min intervals, you can use that data and equation 28 ( www.fao.org/3/x0490e/x0490e07.htm#radiation) to calculate average Ra for each 5 min period. It's quite a involved calculation but it can be done. Once you have Rs/Ra, percent possible sunshine can be calculated for each observation easily. I could make another calculator to use 5-minute data, but it would take some time. Thanks, equation 28 looks really complex and potentially above my math skills but I’ll try it out. It’s weird that the AgMesonet has calculated the Rso but then only puts it in the graph or in daily form. Annoying that they have it but don’t put it in the 5 minute table.
|
|