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Post by firebird1988 on Apr 24, 2023 20:13:56 GMT -5
Sorry, but there is no hope in hell that that broken climate classification system can predict evapotranspiration. We have much better methods of measuring evaporation now and it turns out there is more evaporation in just two summer months alone than that fantasy Koppen number. Annual Penman evapotranspiration at the nearest RAWS (Vandenberg) is on the order of 50" to 60", roughly 4x annual precipitation. It's an extremely arid climate. Koppen considering winter rain being more valuable to vegetation than summer rain should be enough for anyone to disregard the climate classification entirely, especially if you understand a bit about botany. I wouldn't say extremely arid, more like semi-arid You have to forgive tommy, he thinks that anywhere that doesn't look like a fucking rainforest is "semi arid" or "arid" |
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Post by firebird1988 on Apr 24, 2023 20:15:29 GMT -5
Per Koppen, evap is 296 mm, and rainfall is 336 mm, last I checked 336 is more than 296 smh Sorry, but there is no hope in hell that that broken climate classification system can predict evapotranspiration. We have much better methods of measuring evaporation now and it turns out there is more evaporation in just two summer months alone than that fantasy Koppen number. Annual Penman evapotranspiration at the nearest RAWS (Vandenberg) is on the order of 50" to 60", roughly 4x annual precipitation. It's an extremely arid climate. Koppen considering winter rain being more valuable to vegetation than summer rain should be enough for anyone to disregard the climate classification entirely, especially if you understand a bit about botany. I've been to Santa Maria, and if it's "extremely arid", then what the fuck are we?!?!?..... |
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Apr 24, 2023 23:06:40 GMT -5
Nah, it's still a generally mild to warm and decently sunny climate. In SoCal you need like 17" of annual rainfall to be truly Mediterranean, even 20" in the places with hot summers. Per Koppen, Rainfall exceeds evap in Santa Maria. Rainfall=336 mm Evap per Koppen=296 mm How do you calculate evaporation via köppen? |
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Post by firebird1988 on Apr 24, 2023 23:16:05 GMT -5
Per Koppen, Rainfall exceeds evap in Santa Maria. Rainfall=336 mm Evap per Koppen=296 mm How do you calculate evaporation via köppen? Annual mean in Celcius times 20=X If 70%+ precip occurs during high sun half of year, add 280 to X; If 30%-69% occurs during high sun half, add 140 to X; If less than 30% occurs during high sun half, add 0 to X That number, whatever it is is your annual evapotranspiration in millimeters Annual mean in Santa Maria is 14.8°C, and less than 30% of precip occura from April to September, so 14.8 times 20=296 and 296+0=296, so 296 is the annual evapotranspiration |
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Post by caspase8 on Apr 25, 2023 1:40:00 GMT -5
D+. Slightly better than San Francisco.
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Post by Benfxmth on Apr 25, 2023 6:06:33 GMT -5
Per Koppen, evap is 296 mm, and rainfall is 336 mm, last I checked 336 is more than 296 smh Sorry, but there is no hope in hell that that broken climate classification system can predict evapotranspiration. We have much better methods of measuring evaporation now and it turns out there is more evaporation in just two summer months alone than that fantasy Koppen number. Annual Penman evapotranspiration at the nearest RAWS (Vandenberg) is on the order of 50" to 60", roughly 4x annual precipitation. It's an extremely arid climate.
Koppen considering winter rain being more valuable to vegetation than summer rain should be enough for anyone to disregard the climate classification entirely, especially if you understand a bit about botany. Mind you, the "extremely arid" definition here is relative, according to some, the "humid" definition for Penman's evapotranspiration index is above 0.75: mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/hydrology/hydrology-10-00064/article_deploy/hydrology-10-00064-v2.pdf |
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Post by cawfeefan on Apr 25, 2023 6:59:43 GMT -5
B-, comfortable but a bit boring
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Post by tommyFL on Apr 25, 2023 9:11:38 GMT -5
How do you calculate evaporation via köppen? Annual mean in Celcius times 20=X If 70%+ precip occurs during high sun half of year, add 280 to X; If 30%-69% occurs during high sun half, add 140 to X; If less than 30% occurs during high sun half, add 0 to X That number, whatever it is is your annual evapotranspiration in millimeters Annual mean in Santa Maria is 14.8°C, and less than 30% of precip occura from April to September, so 14.8 times 20=296 and 296+0=296, so 296 is the annual evapotranspiration No offense, but I don't really think you thought this "formula" through before blindly trusting it. Given two climates with identical temps, one with a summer rain peak and the other with a winter rain peak, the summer rain peak climate would somehow have more evapotranspiration despite it raining more (i.e. cloudier) during the season of highest evaporation. For low evaporation, maximize cloud cover during the summer when solar radiation makes the largest difference in terms of evaporation. Outside the tropics, winter precipitation has a very small effect on evaporation during that time of year. The difference can be enormous in the high sun season, though. This is demonstrable via both Penmat ET calculations and measured pan evaporation data. |
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Post by 🖕🏿Mörön🖕🏿 on Apr 25, 2023 11:31:32 GMT -5
Annual mean in Celcius times 20=X If 70%+ precip occurs during high sun half of year, add 280 to X; If 30%-69% occurs during high sun half, add 140 to X; If less than 30% occurs during high sun half, add 0 to X That number, whatever it is is your annual evapotranspiration in millimeters Annual mean in Santa Maria is 14.8°C, and less than 30% of precip occura from April to September, so 14.8 times 20=296 and 296+0=296, so 296 is the annual evapotranspiration No offense, but I don't really think you thought this "formula" through before blindly trusting it. Given two climates with identical temps, one with a summer rain peak and the other with a winter rain peak, the summer rain peak climate would somehow have more evapotranspiration despite it raining more (i.e. cloudier) during the season of highest evaporation. For low evaporation, maximize cloud cover during the summer when solar radiation makes the largest difference in terms of evaporation. Outside the tropics, winter precipitation has a very small effect on evaporation during that time of year. The difference can be enormous in the high sun season, though.This is demonstrable via both Penmat ET calculations and measured pan evaporation data. yeah that's why places like western Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia can be tinder dry in summer, despite having buckets of winter precipitation. Sometimes the vegetation species reflects that, but that is beside the point. |
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Post by firebird1988 on Apr 25, 2023 12:34:10 GMT -5
Annual mean in Celcius times 20=X If 70%+ precip occurs during high sun half of year, add 280 to X; If 30%-69% occurs during high sun half, add 140 to X; If less than 30% occurs during high sun half, add 0 to X That number, whatever it is is your annual evapotranspiration in millimeters Annual mean in Santa Maria is 14.8°C, and less than 30% of precip occura from April to September, so 14.8 times 20=296 and 296+0=296, so 296 is the annual evapotranspiration No offense, but I don't really think you thought this "formula" through before blindly trusting it. Given two climates with identical temps, one with a summer rain peak and the other with a winter rain peak, the summer rain peak climate would somehow have more evapotranspiration despite it raining more (i.e. cloudier) during the season of highest evaporation. For low evaporation, maximize cloud cover during the summer when solar radiation makes the largest difference in terms of evaporation. Outside the tropics, winter precipitation has a very small effect on evaporation during that time of year. The difference can be enormous in the high sun season, though. This is demonstrable via both Penmat ET calculations and measured pan evaporation data. You're not correct, as in summer, more precip evaporates, so when winter is the dry season, you don't build up the water table. Plus, compare San Diego and Midland, annual mean temp and annual precip not too different, but Midland looks more arid than San Diego due to the winter dry season in Midland |
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Post by sari on Apr 25, 2023 14:56:23 GMT -5
Definitely one of the climates of all time
I guess I'll give it a C but like
is it even possible to have an opinion on this
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Post by tommyFL on Apr 25, 2023 16:20:26 GMT -5
No offense, but I don't really think you thought this "formula" through before blindly trusting it. Given two climates with identical temps, one with a summer rain peak and the other with a winter rain peak, the summer rain peak climate would somehow have more evapotranspiration despite it raining more (i.e. cloudier) during the season of highest evaporation. For low evaporation, maximize cloud cover during the summer when solar radiation makes the largest difference in terms of evaporation. Outside the tropics, winter precipitation has a very small effect on evaporation during that time of year. The difference can be enormous in the high sun season, though. This is demonstrable via both Penmat ET calculations and measured pan evaporation data. You're not correct, as in summer, more precip evaporates, so when winter is the dry season, you don't build up the water table. Plus, compare San Diego and Midland, annual mean temp and annual precip not too different, but Midland looks more arid than San Diego due to the winter dry season in Midland "Water table" doesn't really mean anything for plants. The most crucial layer of soil is the uppermost few inches. If that dries out, the surface looks arid no matter how much water is stored down below in some hidden aquifer. Groundwater = good for humans with the means to mechanically extract that water, mostly useless for plants. In general, the ratio of precipitation to evaporation should be at or above 1 for as much of the growing season as possible for best plant growth. Not at all possible in a Mediterranean climate with sky high evaporation and zero rain during the summer, but the norm in places with precipitation distributed accordingly to temperature and solar radiation. |
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Post by firebird1988 on Apr 25, 2023 17:25:31 GMT -5
You're not correct, as in summer, more precip evaporates, so when winter is the dry season, you don't build up the water table. Plus, compare San Diego and Midland, annual mean temp and annual precip not too different, but Midland looks more arid than San Diego due to the winter dry season in Midland "Water table" doesn't really mean anything for plants. The most crucial layer of soil is the uppermost few inches. If that dries out, the surface looks arid no matter how much water is stored down below in some hidden aquifer. Groundwater = good for humans with the means to mechanically extract that water, mostly useless for plants. In general, the ratio of precipitation to evaporation should be at or above 1 for as much of the growing season as possible for best plant growth. Not at all possible in a Mediterranean climate with sky high evaporation and zero rain during the summer, but the norm in places with precipitation distributed accordingly to temperature and solar radiation. Med climates still aren't barren though, so you aren't as right as you think you are |
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Apr 25, 2023 17:32:21 GMT -5
"Water table" doesn't really mean anything for plants. The most crucial layer of soil is the uppermost few inches. If that dries out, the surface looks arid no matter how much water is stored down below in some hidden aquifer. Groundwater = good for humans with the means to mechanically extract that water, mostly useless for plants. In general, the ratio of precipitation to evaporation should be at or above 1 for as much of the growing season as possible for best plant growth. Not at all possible in a Mediterranean climate with sky high evaporation and zero rain during the summer, but the norm in places with precipitation distributed accordingly to temperature and solar radiation. Med climates still aren't barren though, so you aren't as right as you think you are Yeah by Tommy's logic (only growing season rainfall matters for lushness) places like the Willamette Valley in Oregon should be semiarid like San Diego, despite the fact that the Willamette Valley is a pretty lush region.
In SoCal itself you can make this comparison, compare the semidesert scrub vegetation on the coast south of LA down the coast, to the foothill chaparral and even oak woodland found just a bit inland of LA itself.
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Post by Ethereal on Apr 29, 2023 22:49:37 GMT -5
B+ cute climate, needs warmer highs tho
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Post by jetshnl on May 21, 2023 23:19:01 GMT -5
Its a C-/D+, too cool
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Post by CRISPR on Feb 3, 2024 23:42:15 GMT -5
B-. If I grill anything from meat to veggies, then I would do it in the summer sun!
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