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Post by Nidaros on Jun 30, 2018 13:13:41 GMT -5
1) Growing Degree Days (GDD) is one of the important factors for planth growth; it is a measure of how much warmth there are for growth. However, it does not very well take into account the possibility of large deviation from normal and killing freezes. But the plants have to take that in account, indeed plants are extremely good at adapting to the local climate over time. In some inland areas, the theoretical GDD can not be used in spring or fall due to killing freezes. The high seems to be more important than the low for GDD, as the low is clipped and set to the base in the equation if lower than the base. The baseline is often 10C (like here) but can also be lower, such as 5C or 8C, depending on which plant it is and the possibilites in the local climate. For cool oceanic climates a lower baseline is often used, as the deviation from normal is much smaller than in inland climates so a lower baseline can be used by plants as the risk of killing freees is low. In inland areas, this is a bad idea as plants will not grow at that temperature in spring or have stopped growing in autumn due to the risk of killing freezes, which plants must adapt to. So in oceanic climates, plants can use lower temps due to less risk of killing freeze and thus more of the year for growth. In Norway, scientist usually use 5C baseline. But it can vary according to which plant species even here.
2) For this particular example, I have looked for normals for Ski, and the only one in the database is from a station 130 m ASL, but only for mean (no avg high/low). My guess is that Ski here is used for Ås, where the university for biological sciences is located, only 7 km away (Ski is the closest town to Ås). The weather station there is 92 m ASL, and there only exist normals for 1961-90 - Norway's met office is one of the few which still only use those, there are no official 1981-2010 normals. As 1961-90 was very cold here compared to both earlier and later years, it seems our met office work hard to make us look extra cold. The large difference from Ski/Ås to Voru in that chart seems strange, as Voru's summers are pretty similar to Oslo and Drammen. Drammen even has warmer June and Sep than Voru according to this page - which should be impossible looking at your chart.
So what climate normals are used? Is it 61-90 for all stations?
Further, the Ås/Ski weather station at that university has pretty cool highs for it's location in the SE lowland. For instance, June high (61-90) is only 19.8C at Ås while it is 21.2C on the warmest stations in the SE; such as Gvarv, and July only 20.8C compared to 22.2C for Gvarv. 1981-2010 would be ca 1C warmer.
GDD is still an important thing. Many plants can not survive harsh winters, true but one can grow watermelons near Yakutsk, no mater the brutal winters of it as watermelons grow in warm months. I believe one can not grow watermelons near Aberdeen and in other oceanic, wet, cloudy climates such as most of uk, Ireland etc. However, the coldness of estonia's winters are overrated by some posters here. Even here, in eastern part of country with colder winters ivy can climb on wall although not that well as in the islands. I believe noone even thinks about growing ivy outside in garden in Perm or in Novosibirsk. The infoclimat.fr's data for years 81-10 is not correct, at least not for Võru. My charts are from weather spark and they say their data is from 1980-2016. I took Ski as the Ski area looks nature wise similar to estonia, I have lived there. We can take Drammen as well but using Drammen the difference with Võru at weather spark would be even bigger: weatherspark.com/compare/y/95188~68655/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-V%C3%B5ru-and-DrammenAha, now I see your source. And the data for Drammen in your link is completely nonsense! Anyone who believes that data to be good for Norway is seriously lacking knowledge about the Norwegian climate
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 13:15:15 GMT -5
And Estonia has still better weather from April to October than Norway in general. You overall should not compare yourselves with Estonia but with Faroese and Iceland, humble me thinks. irlinit said:
Norway, Finland, Estonia Perhaps there are very nice baobabs etc somewhere in London's backyards but Britain is said to be one of those countries whose own agriculture can not feed it's own population. The warmest corner of Norway and a location in central UK and now let's watch how their growing degree days are What is your data source for Leeds? I hope it isn't the Leeds Bradford airport, because that's not actually in Leeds, and is it at a higher elevation anyway, so it will not be representative. Weather spark's data are incorrect FWIW, as I just had a look.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 13:16:17 GMT -5
England is in fact not a country but a part of a country, UK is a country and Leeds is in middle of UK. The soil is important, i agree. Northern-Estonian place of Paide what is believed to have the most fertile soils of Estonia has still better growing degree days than Leeds eg. England is in fact an individual country - and furthermore it has its own independent long term official central temperature record called the "Central England Temperature", which has been recorded since the late 18th century. www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/Perhaps you should use that instead of using an elevated airport location for a place in Northern England. Here is the actual data for Leeds (nearest official met office weather station). Since you're comparing a place in southern Estonia, then you should also be comparing a location in Southern England. London would do nicely.
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Post by aabc123 on Jun 30, 2018 15:06:19 GMT -5
England- a country? Really? Ok. At least on the world maps it is never shown as a separate country.
London and with it's uhi. But not most of Uk. I am comparing my nearest station which is on the latitude of Aberdeen. I should actually compare it with Aberdeen but still Luton is not a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 16:04:55 GMT -5
England- a country? Really? Ok. At least on the world maps it is never shown as a separate country. Yes. It is a country. The UK is a Union of four countries.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 8:35:45 GMT -5
What even is this argument? Irlinit said he didn't like Estonia's climate so we're now being shown growing degree charts from a high altitude station near Leeds. I don't really understand what that is supposed to signify Btw, southern England is more than just London.
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Post by knot on Jul 2, 2018 8:47:03 GMT -5
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Post by irlinit on Jul 2, 2018 11:11:06 GMT -5
There are no climates in Scandinavia or Eastern Europe north of 50N that are not terrible IMO. I don’t like my climate enough so I definitely will not like somewhere even colder
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Post by aabc123 on Jul 26, 2018 17:36:21 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see Estonia listed so often. My darling, you are surprised? You, you two-faced Janus? If people believe estonia is an extreme shithole then it is certainly thanks to your raring posts as well.! You have portraited them it as the most miserable, Barrow-like shithole. Do not be that unpretentious, you have done a great work in city data and here! (Only contrary to your beliefs, my climatological extremist, most people do not admire those Barrow-type of climates that much )
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Post by rozenn on Jul 26, 2018 17:41:00 GMT -5
Why the drama?
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Post by Hiromant on Jul 27, 2018 0:36:10 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see Estonia listed so often. My darling, you are surprised? You, you two-faced Janus? If people believe estonia is an extreme shithole then it is certainly thanks to your raring posts as well.! You have portraited them it as the most miserable, Barrow-like shithole. Do not be that unpretentious, you have done a great work in city data and here! (Only contrary to your beliefs, my climatological extremist, most people do not admire those Barrow-type of climates that much ) That's rich coming from the guy who just claimed 28-30°C highs for a month straight is "slightly warm" and "not a heatwave."
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Post by knot on Jul 27, 2018 0:40:38 GMT -5
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Post by 🖕🏿Mörön🖕🏿 on Jul 27, 2018 1:01:06 GMT -5
Estonian civil war redux. Even though he equates coffee with meth, I'll have to side with Hiromant on this one.
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Post by aabc123 on Jul 27, 2018 4:02:53 GMT -5
My darling, you are surprised? You, you two-faced Janus? If people believe estonia is an extreme shithole then it is certainly thanks to your raring posts as well.! You have portraited them it as the most miserable, Barrow-like shithole. Do not be that unpretentious, you have done a great work in city data and here! (Only contrary to your beliefs, my climatological extremist, most people do not admire those Barrow-type of climates that much ) That's rich coming from the guy who just claimed 28-30°C highs for a month straight is "slightly warm" and "not a heatwave." No, i did not say "slightly warm". The month is indeed, slightly warm with deviations 1.3c above average, Vienna, Oslo, places in Germany have had + 5c deviations from average! But not me, I have had much less. Heatwave is if there is 2 days in row with 30+c degrees, if there is 3 days with +30 in row when is *serious heatwave*- so defines it estonian ehmi. In this July I have had 1 day with above 30c, Valga has had 0 days with above 30c. In 2006, in 2010 I had 7 days in row with above 30c.
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Post by aabc123 on Jul 27, 2018 4:07:52 GMT -5
No, I am not "Botev Anhimdyc". Hiromant is climatological extremist. He thinks Barrow, Alaska has perfect climate. 99,9999% of people do not think like that hiroment thinks. Me neither.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 5:57:37 GMT -5
who has ever claimed estonia is similar to alaska? you're constantly triggered about estonia's climate. you even get offended when i say i prefer estonia's climate over southern swedens, because i like the colder winters there.
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Post by Babu on Jul 27, 2018 8:26:27 GMT -5
who has ever claimed estonia is similar to alaska? you're constantly triggered about estonia's climate. you even get offended when i say i prefer estonia's climate over southern swedens, because i like the colder winters there. And this, even though Anhityk prefers cold winters over mild winters lol
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Post by Babu on Jul 27, 2018 8:28:22 GMT -5
Maaan, I love polar ice cap climates, but if you day Umeå is cold, I will FUCK YOUR SHIT UP.
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Post by alphatier on Jul 30, 2018 8:20:07 GMT -5
Umea ic covfefe
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Post by aabc123 on Jul 31, 2018 5:15:02 GMT -5
And this, even though Anhityk prefers cold winters over mild winters lol You are repeating it over and over again but you have not understood it. That means that I prefer Moscow over Belfast and Nizhny Novgorod over Torshavn. But if I could choose between Canary islands and Moscow I will choose Canary islands and if I could choose between Nizhny Novgorod and Zanzibar i will choose Zanzibar.
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