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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 4:52:57 GMT -5
The Vikings got around, and established a lot of cities in the process. As you'd expect, the viking world was a pretty cold place, and the climate of Scandinavia is thought to have been colder in those days. Which of these was the best? Copenhagen, Denmark
Oslo, Norway
Trondheim, Norway
Tromsรธ, Norway
Lund, Sweden
Stockholm, Sweden
York, England
Dublin, Ireland
Reykjavรญk, Iceland
Nuuk, Greenland
Vinland, Canada
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 5:23:08 GMT -5
Linton/York easily.
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Post by Beercules on Oct 1, 2018 5:30:39 GMT -5
All of them are dung. But for me, Stockholm seems to be the least of the evils.
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Post by Babu on Oct 1, 2018 5:30:51 GMT -5
Lund is slightly better than Linton/York
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Post by Steelernation on Oct 1, 2018 5:53:49 GMT -5
Stockholm.
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Post by Hiromant on Oct 1, 2018 8:43:29 GMT -5
Vinland. Man these winters are pathetic lately.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 10:01:29 GMT -5
Only 2 cities with a chance; York and Dublin.
York is better.
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Post by flamingGalah on Oct 1, 2018 11:58:59 GMT -5
Dublin, simply for having the mildest winters, they are all cack really.
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Post by Nidaros on Oct 1, 2018 12:27:08 GMT -5
Holmgard was a well established Viking colony, controlling the river system and surrounding land; todays Novgorod near St. Petersburg.
Also, Kiev in Ukraine was controlled and probably enlarged by Vikings when they controlled it
And what about Normandy, France?
And in Spain & Portugal, the Balearic islands and northern Africa - many cities sacked incl Seville and Lisbon and battles with the muslims, but not really settlements afaik
Might also include a coastal city in Northern Poland (Jomsvikings) where a bunch of vikings established themselves.
Also, very limitied settlement in the Tromsรธ area, northernmost significant Norse settlement seems to have been in the Harstad area (not that it will matter for the battle), as it was very hard to ripen grain further north.
VIking-era Norse praised the mild climate of the British Isles, green all year. They knew the burning summer sun of Northern Africa, and of course the very cold winters of Northern Russia and inland Northern Scandinavia. |
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Post by ๐๐ฟMรถrรถn๐๐ฟ on Oct 1, 2018 12:46:36 GMT -5
Vinland or Veliky Novgorod.
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Post by alex992 on Oct 1, 2018 13:04:28 GMT -5
Vinland, fuck nut.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 13:20:43 GMT -5
Holmgard was a well established Viking colony, controlling the river system and surrounding land; todays Novgorod near St. Petersburg.
Also, Kiev in Ukraine was controlled and probably enlarged by Vikings when they controlled it
And what about Normandy, France?
And in Spain & Portugal, the Balearic islands and northern Africa - many cities sacked incl Seville and Lisbon and battles with the muslims, but not really settlements afaik
Might also include a coastal city in Northern Poland (Jomsvikings) where a bunch of vikings established themselves.
Also, very limitied settlement in the Tromsรธ area, northernmost significant Norse settlement seems to have been in the Harstad area (not that it will matter for the battle), as it was very hard to ripen grain further north.
VIking-era Norse praised the mild climate of the British Isles, green all year. They knew the burning summer sun of Northern Africa, and of course the very cold winters of Northern Russia and inland Northern Scandinavia. I used Tromsรธ because it was their most northern settlement in Norway. Cool extract from wiki: The Norse chieftain Ohthere, who lived during the 890s, is assumed to have inhabited the southernmost reaches of today's Tromsรธ municipality. He described himself as living "furthest to the North of all Norwegians" with areas north of this being populated by Sรกmi.
It also had the northernmost church in the world. I was considering Kiev, but wanted to limit it to cities they founded rather than cities they conquered and/or assimilated into. I wasn't strictly playing by the rules with York since it was a city they captured. But they essentially refounded it, and it's famous for being the Viking capital of England. I did want to include Veliky Novgorod but couldn't find a climate box, could have possibly used Saint Petersburg I guess, but it would have been a more coastal representation. The Vikings sure did get around though, all across the Mediterranean and even serving into the imperial courts of the Byzantine emperors. |
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Post by Ariete on Oct 1, 2018 13:25:18 GMT -5
Strewthless , actually the colonisation of Iceland and Greenland was possible due to the Medieval Warm Period. In Northern Europe it is usually said it "started" around 950 and ended around 1250. However, in Greenland it started possibly as early as 600, and in Newfoundland before Europe as well. In Finland based of pollen, climate stats and tree ring analysis the Medieval Warm Period is dated to begin around 980, but the temperature had slowly started rising a 100 years before that. Nevertheless the exact date, the Medieval Warm Period was the warmest period in the Northern Hemisphere before the present day, and analysis have showed that in 'Vinland' the mean temp around 1000 was pretty close to the 1990's and 2000's. Therefore the 71-00 and 81-10 normals represent the climate back then pretty well. The end of the warm period around 1250 correlates quite well to the abandonment of Greenland. Nidaros , indeed. The eastern "route" was as important as the western, so Staraya Ladoga, Novgorod the Great, Kiev, Smolensk etc should be included, and that would make my pick much easier.  Also, I think these were much more important than say, Oslo or Tromsรถ. Neither was Stockholm really an important place, and Sigtuna was the most important "capital" of the Swedish vikings after Birka was abandoned. (For Sigtuna one should use the Uppsala weather box).
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Post by Ariete on Oct 1, 2018 13:30:42 GMT -5
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Post by Nidaros on Oct 1, 2018 13:36:50 GMT -5
Hedeby in todayโs Northern Germany was probably the largest trading ยซcityยป of early Viking age. Actually might have been largest ยซcityยป in Northern Europe at that time, before cities became widespread (different story in S Europe).
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Post by Ariete on Oct 1, 2018 13:41:53 GMT -5
Hedeby in todayโs Northern Germany was probably the largest trading ยซcityยป of early Viking age. Actually might have been largest ยซcityยป in Northern Europe at that time, before cities became widespread (different story in S Europe).
And Staraya Ladoga, today a tiny village, was maybe the most important trading "city" of Eastern Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 14:02:22 GMT -5
Strewthless , actually the colonisation of Iceland and Greenland was possible due to the Medieval Warm Period. In Northern Europe it is usually said it "started" around 950 and ended around 1250. However, in Greenland it started possibly as early as 600, and in Newfoundland before Europe as well. In Finland based of pollen, climate stats and tree ring analysis the Medieval Warm Period is dated to begin around 980, but the temperature had slowly started rising a 100 years before that. Nevertheless the exact date, the Medieval Warm Period was the warmest period in the Northern Hemisphere before the present day, and analysis have showed that in 'Vinland' the mean temp around 1000 was pretty close to the 1990's and 2000's. Therefore the 71-00 and 81-10 normals represent the climate back then pretty well. The end of the warm period around 1250 correlates quite well to the abandonment of Greenland. Nidaros , indeed. The eastern "route" was as important as the western, so Staraya Ladoga, Novgorod the Great, Kiev, Smolensk etc should be included, and that would make my pick much easier. Also, I think these were much more important than say, Oslo or Tromsรถ. Neither was Stockholm really an important place, and Sigtuna was the most important "capital" of the Swedish vikings after Birka was abandoned. (For Sigtuna one should use the Uppsala weather box).
My mistake, it was the beginning of the Viking age that was colder? I've read that the climate in Scandinavia becoming colder triggered the initial raids and migrations. It's said that part of the reason why the Norwegians were defeated at Stamford Bridge in 1066, was because they were struggling to deal to cope with a heatwave, it was October. Which suggests that it was a pretty warm period, I guess  Difficult to say where I draw the line if I include some of the other cities suggested, the Vikings established presences there, but they didn't found them. I could just as easily throw in London, which people don't really associate with the Vikings. Even though for a period it was an important Viking capital. |
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Post by Babu on Oct 1, 2018 14:08:03 GMT -5
Was it the medieval or roman warm period during which grapes grew in Scandinavia?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 14:09:54 GMT -5
Was it the medieval or roman warm period during which grapes grew in Scandinavia? Probably Roman. The Romans grew vineyards as far north as Lincoln. |
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Post by Ariete on Oct 1, 2018 14:15:07 GMT -5
My mistake, it was the beginning of the Viking age that was colder? I've read that the climate in Scandinavia becoming colder triggered the initial raids and migrations. It's said that part of the reason why the Norwegians were defeated at Stamford Bridge in 1066, was because they were struggling to deal to cope with a heatwave, it was October. Which suggests that it was a pretty warm period, I guess Difficult to say where I draw the line if I include some of the other cities suggested, the Vikings established presences there, but they didn't found them. I could just as easily throw in London, which people don't really associate with the Vikings.
Yes, the 700's were colder, but still warmer than the 1600's for example. Poor harvests might be one factor which triggered the initial explorations and raids, but the other and probably more important reason was that the migration period trade routes died out, and you had to find new ones to get extra income. Meanwhile the Swedish settlement of Birka was founded in 750, and it had close connections and totally peaceful relations with the Turku region (and possibly the Estonian coast and Courland). Likewise Roskilde in Denmark had good relations both east and west, so the viking explorations weren't triggered by desperation. Also the theory of overpopulation for example in the Norwegian fjords have been debunked.
I think the most simple and common explanation is the most plausible one: money. It was all about greed and adventure.
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Also, I think these were much more important than say, Oslo or Tromsรถ. Neither was Stockholm really an important place, and Sigtuna was the most important "capital" of the Swedish vikings after Birka was abandoned. (For Sigtuna one should use the Uppsala weather box).
