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Post by knot on Jul 6, 2020 4:22:02 GMT -5
Rutherglen and Raleigh share a similar latitude and elevation, but which is more subtropical in your view? I'd say, without the slightest doubt, that Rutherglen is more subtropical; as it entirely lacks the extreme cold which Raleigh regularly experiences in an average winter (annual mean minimum of –12° C, for starters, alongside a bone-shattering record of –23° C). As for summer, Rutherglen gets significantly hotter than Raleigh, as well as much sunnier. Rutherglen, Victoria (AU) Raleigh, North Carolina (US) |
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Post by chesternz on Jul 6, 2020 4:40:00 GMT -5
Raleigh. Winter minima are colder but it's more subtropical in every other way. It has hotter summers with higher humidity, a higher mean temp, summer rainfall peak (albeit not a very pronounced one), and much wetter. Rutherglen is more of a dry temperate climate with subtropical desert influences.
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Post by Benfxmth on Jul 6, 2020 5:50:27 GMT -5
Raleigh definitely is more subtropical. Even though the winters are colder in Raleigh, but Raleigh is more subtropical in every other way; it has warmer summer means and is much wetter.
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Post by AJ1013 on Jul 6, 2020 16:44:07 GMT -5
Raleigh for sure
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Post by antares on Jul 6, 2020 16:44:34 GMT -5
Raleigh is more subtropical.
1) More rainfall
2) Actually humid
3) Yes winter record lows are extreme, but those are always sporadic and then it warms up again quickly.
4) Warmer summers on average
5) Raleigh is pretty sunny but that has no bearing on how subtropical a climate is
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Post by irlinit on Jul 6, 2020 16:59:24 GMT -5
I choose Rutherglen as to me subtropical means somewhere that lacks extreme cold or even irregular cold which is certainly not true of Raleigh. Rutherglen also can surely support subtropical vegetation whereas many plants could not survive a Raleigh cold snap which are not rare.
Neither are particularly subtropical in my eyes and Raleigh has a summer that is subtropical like more than Rutherglen, however the cool season has more weight for me as when I think of tropical or subtropical I think of year round warm climates, not somewhere that can get severe cold snaps pretty much every winter. Also having an average mean extreme minimum of <0C In 7 months of the year is worse than here. Even April and October have chances of cold snaps.
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Post by Steelernation on Jul 6, 2020 17:30:00 GMT -5
Both are subtropical but Raleigh is more subtropical imo.
The precipitation pattern is the deciding factor as Raleigh has a summer peak while the winter peak in Rutherglen is more typical of oceanic or Mediterranean climates. Also all those precipitation days in winter there mean lots of drizzle/light rain which again I see as less of a subtropical feature.
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Post by deneb78 on Jul 6, 2020 17:40:56 GMT -5
Rutherglen. Less extreme winters and you can actually grow more subtropical plants than in Raleigh.
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Post by knot on Jul 7, 2020 4:42:26 GMT -5
Fair play, lads! Poll's tied at 6-all. I just knew this would be a good contest.  Well, I needed some way to bump the thread…keeps getting buried by necro'd threads from 2017.   |
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Post by Babu on Jul 7, 2020 6:36:28 GMT -5
Raleigh, and it's not even a question if you ask me. Raleigh is far warmer annually, especially in the lows, and the summers are 7'C warmer in terms of lows, with much more humidity.
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Post by Speagles84 on Jul 7, 2020 6:45:48 GMT -5
Rutherglen is more subtropical in my view. The defining characteristic that it has over Raleigh is average lows in winter are all above freezing, while Raleigh has an average subfreezing low in January (roughly meaning more than half of days in January have freezes).
Raleigh has a more subtropical summer with much warmer lows, but its also much more susceptible to arctic outbreaks which should preclude it from a subtropical climate in my opinion.
My primary gripe with calling Rutherglen truly subtropical is that is HAS to be close to semi-arid. 22" of annual rainfall is dry for a continental climate, much less a subtropical one.
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Post by Ariete on Jul 7, 2020 12:58:35 GMT -5
Though Raleigh is capable of some extreme bone-shattering cold in winter, it's more subtropical. Rutherglen has Turkuesque summer lows, which is crazy considering the latitude and summer high difference.
Raleigh is much more subtropical.
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Post by knot on Jul 7, 2020 16:00:47 GMT -5
My primary gripe with calling Rutherglen truly subtropical is that is HAS to be close to semi-arid. 22" of annual rainfall is dry for a continental climate, much less a subtropical one. The Subtropics are actually one of the driest regions on Earth, due to the Hadley Cell. The world's most well-known deserts—the Sahara, and those in North-Central Australia—straddle the 30th parallel. In AU, the farther south you go, the greener it gets; even if you go 600 km from any coastline down south, it's still brilliantly green (Victoria is green all the way through below 36° S, compared to QLD which dries very quickly even 100 km afield). So if anything, aridity is more of a subtropical characteristic, as opposed to a temperate one. |
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Post by Yahya Sinwar on Jul 7, 2020 16:43:03 GMT -5
My primary gripe with calling Rutherglen truly subtropical is that is HAS to be close to semi-arid. 22" of annual rainfall is dry for a continental climate, much less a subtropical one. The Subtropics are actually one of the driest regions on Earth, due to the Hadley Cell. The world's most well-known deserts—the Sahara, and those in North-Central Australia—straddle the 30th parallel. In AU, the farther south you go, the greener it gets; even if you go 600 km from any coastline down south, it's still brilliantly green (Victoria is green all the way through below 36° S, compared to QLD which dries very quickly even 100 km afield). So if anything, aridity is more of a subtropical characteristic, as opposed to a temperate one. Not true , Hadley cell extends pretty far north in the southeast as well . There are other factors keeping us wet and no “ temperate” isn’t it. You know what is? Tropical weather! |
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ǝɹǝɥds ɐɯɐqo
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Post by ǝɹǝɥds ɐɯɐqo on Jul 7, 2020 16:45:34 GMT -5
Both are for sure, but I would say Rutherglen.
It has warmer winters and no extreme cold. I would have chosen Raleigh if it were not for the extreme cold, which most actual subtropical climates (no, NYC should not be considered as such) lack.
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Post by Speagles84 on Jul 7, 2020 18:15:42 GMT -5
My primary gripe with calling Rutherglen truly subtropical is that is HAS to be close to semi-arid. 22" of annual rainfall is dry for a continental climate, much less a subtropical one. The Subtropics are actually one of the driest regions on Earth, due to the Hadley Cell. The world's most well-known deserts—the Sahara, and those in North-Central Australia—straddle the 30th parallel. In AU, the farther south you go, the greener it gets; even if you go 600 km from any coastline down south, it's still brilliantly green (Victoria is green all the way through below 36° S, compared to QLD which dries very quickly even 100 km afield). So if anything, aridity is more of a subtropical characteristic, as opposed to a temperate one. Fair points, but from just the US perspective I think of subtropical climates as very wet even though there is quite a bit of dry subtropical areas worldwide. |
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Cevven
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Post by Cevven on Dec 26, 2020 4:11:48 GMT -5
Based on temperature averages, they are roughly the same with Raleigh being slightly cooler in the winter and slightly warmer in the summer. However, as some people pointed out in this thread, Raleigh is more subject to arctic snaps due to the teleconnections and geographical profile of North America. Plus, North America is more subject to arctic oscillation which brings polar vortexes deep down south - that causes abominable carnage to subtropical and even temperate vegetation (which happened constantly in the 80's and a few times in the 2010's).
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Post by greysrigging on Dec 26, 2020 5:58:15 GMT -5
In Australia we generally have a completely different take on 'sub tropicality'. Neither place is 'sub tropical'.
So anywhere that gets 'cold' ain't sub tropical......
Generally, frosts and their prevalence are not placed in the sub tropical basket ! Nor prolonged daytime temps below say 18c.
And using the vegetative rule of thumb, anywhere that can't grow a coconut palm ( or other tropical and subtropical type fruit trees ) without extra warming blankets and heat lamps etc just don't cut it as "sub tropical'.
And anywhere that grows stone fruits ie peaches, pears, apricots, plums, cherries, apples etc ís in no way 'subtropical'.
So on the east coast about Port Macquarie and all coastal points north at sea level could be described as 'subtropical' ie a coconut palm might survive.
On the west coast about north of Jurian Bay the same scenario.
Of course there are a few anomalies.... Herberton in far North Queensland on the Atherton Tablelands ( altitude 3000') has recorded -5c historically....a sub tropical highland type climate.
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Cevven
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Post by Cevven on Dec 26, 2020 6:41:02 GMT -5
In Australia we generally have a completely different take on 'sub tropicality'. Neither place is 'sub tropical'. So anywhere that gets 'cold' ain't sub tropical...... Generally, frosts and their prevalence are not placed in the sub tropical basket ! Nor prolonged daytime temps below say 18c. And using the vegetative rule of thumb, anywhere that can't grow a coconut palm ( or other tropical and subtropical type fruit trees ) without extra warming blankets and heat lamps etc just don't cut it as "sub tropical'. And anywhere that grows stone fruits ie peaches, pears, apricots, plums, cherries, apples etc ís in no way 'subtropical'. So on the east coast about Port Macquarie and all coastal points north at sea level could be described as 'subtropical' ie a coconut palm might survive. I will say daytime temps below 64.4F (18 C) in the winter doesn't qualify a climate being subtropical BUT I do feel if the average winter temp is below 33F in any month, it can disqualify a climate being subtropical. A climate with an average low temp below 28F (hard freeze temp) in the coldest month certainly does. In other words, a subtropical climate is welcome to have a freeze or frost on occasion, as long it's not too frequent and the temps don't get too low to where subtropical vegetation can't be supported or supported properly. Coconut palms are tropical plants by nature but can be supported in some warmer subtropical climates, but not all. Like for example, I easily consider Jacksonville FL or Savannah GA subtropical but they don't support coconut palms. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2020 7:14:50 GMT -5
greysrigging you wouldn't consider Perth subtropical? On topic, it is a tough contest. Rutherglen has less of the intense winter cold snaps Raleigh gets; Raleigh's record lows are pretty ridiculous, especially with the average April going below freezing and recording snowfall. At the same time, Raleigh's summers are easily more subtropical, being dominated by warm weather ultimately of Gulf origin, while Rutherglen's anemic summer lows have gone below 2'C every month of the year. They both have qualities that would make me say "sure, it's subtropical", and others that would make me say "absolutely not" so I can't really pick one. I was leaning toward Raleigh until I saw that April snowfall.
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