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Post by Steelernation on Jan 3, 2021 1:59:59 GMT -5
What would you’re climate classification system be. Serious answers please.
Koppen has a mostly good system but I’d make a few changes which are in red. Explanations are in blue.
A group: All months mean >18 c
Precipitation letter:
• f = All months >60 mm precipitation
• m = Driest month has between 100 - (total precipitation mm/25) and 60 mm
• w = Driest month has < 100 - (total precipitation mm/25) = w
Temperature letter:
• e = Coldest month >25 c OR record low >15 c
• t = Coldest month 18-25 c OR record low <15 c
This distinguishes between equatorial climates and outer tropical ones capable of cooler weather while keeping them in the same general tropical group.
B group: Arid climates
Precipitation letter
• S = annual precipitation between 1 and 2 times the threshold
• W = annual precipitation < the threshold
Threshold = 10 (T-10) + 3 p T=annual mean P =precipitation in 6 high sun months
Trewartha’s aridity threshold is used instead of Koppen’s
Temperature letter
• h = annual mean > 18 c
• k = annual mean <18 c
C group: coldest month 0-18 c
Precipitation letter
• w = >70% of annual precipitation falls in 6 high sun months
• s = driest high sun month has < 1/3 precipitation of wettest low sun month
• f = meets neither criteria
The w category is too restrictive imo so this includes more climates while still requiring a pronounced dry season.
Temperature letter:
• a = annual mean >15 c
• t = annual mean <15 c but hottest month >22 c
• o = annual mean <15 c, hottest month <22 c
• c = 1-3 months >10 c
D group: Coldest month <0 c
Precipitation letter
• w = >70% of annual precipitation falls in 6 high sun months
• s = driest high sun month has < 1/3 precipitation of wettest low sun month
• f = meets neither criteria
Temperature letter
• a = >6 months >10 c OR hottest month average high >30 c
• b = 4-5 months > 10 c
• c = 1-3 months > 10 c
This has always been my biggest complaint. Gets rid of the arbitrary threshold and the a/b split now follows the deciduous/hemiboreal split pretty well.
E group: warmest month < 10 c
Temperature letter
• t = hottest month 0-10 c
• i = hottest month < 0 c
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 3:13:39 GMT -5
It still doesn't get around the issue of cold winter climates like NYC and DC being lumped in with Brisbane.
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Post by Steelernation on Jan 3, 2021 14:24:53 GMT -5
It still doesn't get around the issue of cold winter climates like NYC and DC being lumped in with Brisbane. Well that’s not an issue imo. I’d consider both variants of subtropical climates.
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Post by alex992 on Jan 3, 2021 14:26:14 GMT -5
I'd rather NYC and DC be grouped with Brisbane than the likes of Winnipeg...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 8:50:06 GMT -5
I'd rather NYC and DC be grouped with Brisbane than the likes of Winnipeg... NYC and DC are not fit to lace the boots of Brisbane, climatically. Having them in the same group as real subtropical climates like Brisbane is ridiculous. There should be a winter mean requirement of 7-8c in the coldest month.
A winter characterised by frost and heavy snow is never subtropical.
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Post by knot on Jan 5, 2021 7:50:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 8:52:10 GMT -5
This classification puts Barra (an island in the Outer Hebrides) as maritime, while London and most of SE England is cool maritime despite being a much warmer climate where trees grow.
Barra
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Post by knot on Jan 5, 2021 9:24:22 GMT -5
This classification puts Barra (an island in the Outer Hebrides) as maritime, while London and most of SE England is cool maritime despite being a much warmer climate where trees grow.
Barra
That's because the Cool signifies rather the capability for a climate to receive cooler weather on an absolute scale, than it does the verdancy of said climate.
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Post by knot on Jan 5, 2021 11:31:48 GMT -5
Just added the Equatorial Desert (AeH) and Tropical Desert (AtH) types to my system—entirely overlooked them! Now up to 44 climate types.
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Post by FrozenI69 on Jan 5, 2021 12:04:37 GMT -5
Here is my classification: Am: Tropical monsoon (summer high > 30 C, Winter low > 15 C) Af: Tropical rainforest (summer high > 25 C, Winter low > 15 C) As: Tropical dry summer (summer high > 30 C, Winter low > 15 C)
Bsh: Hot semi arid (summer high > 30 C, Winter low > 5 C) Bsk: Cold semi Arid (summer high > 20 C, Winter low < 5 C) Bwh: Hot desert (summer high > 30 C, Winter low > 5 C) Bwk: Cold desert (summer high > 20 C, Winter low < 5 C)
Csa: Hot summer Mediterranean (summer high > 30 C, Winter low 0-15 C) Cfa: Subtropical (summer high > 30 C, Winter low 0-15 C) Cwa: Hot Subtropical monsoon (summer high > 30 C, Winter low 0-15 C)
Csb: Warm summer Mediterranean (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low 0-10 C) Cfb: Warm Oceanic (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low 0-10 C) Cfc: Cold Oceanic (summer high < 20 C, Winter low 0-10 C) Cwb: Warm subtropical monsoon (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low 0-10 C)
Tf: Wet temperate (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low -10-0 C) Ts: Dry summer temperate (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low -10-0 C) Tw: Dry winter temperate (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low > -10-0 C) Tosh: Unique British climate (summer high 10-20 C with overcast skies, winter low -10-0 C. Annually < 500 hours sunshine)
Dfa/Dsa/Dwa: Hot summer continental (summer high > 30 C, Winter low < 0 C) Dfb/Dsb/Dwb: Warm summer continental (summer high 20-30 C, Winter low < -10 C)
Dsc/Dwc: Boreal (summer high 10-20 C, Winter low < -10 C) Dfc: Subpolar Oceanic (summer high 10-20 C, Winter low < -10 C)
ET: Tundra (summer high < 10 C, Winter low < -10 C)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 12:16:40 GMT -5
FrozenI69, that's a good classification for getting those cold winter climates out of a subtropical definiton and into a continental one where they belong.
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Post by FrozenI69 on Jan 5, 2021 12:38:03 GMT -5
FrozenI69 , that's a good classification for getting those cold winter climates out of a subtropical definiton and into a continental one where they belong. Well, I also added a joke hidden in between. If someone finds it, let me know . My climate classification ranks anything north of Tennessee as Continental or temperate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 12:42:44 GMT -5
FrozenI69 , that's a good classification for getting those cold winter climates out of a subtropical definiton and into a continental one where they belong. Well, I also added a joke hidden in between. If someone finds it, let me know . My climate classification ranks anything north of Tennessee as Continental or temperate. I already saw it. That climate doesn't exist in reality.
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Post by FrozenI69 on Jan 5, 2021 12:48:40 GMT -5
Well, I also added a joke hidden in between. If someone finds it, let me know . My climate classification ranks anything north of Tennessee as Continental or temperate. I already saw it. That climate doesn't exist in reality. Some classifications may not have many climates within them for now, but they will expand as global warming continues. The Scottish highlands may meet the funny classification I listed 😄.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 12:58:06 GMT -5
I already saw it. That climate doesn't exist in reality. Some classifications may not have many climates within them for now, but they will expand as global warming continues. The Scottish highlands may meet the funny classification I listed 😄. Kinlochewe is the cloudiest site in the UK, with 898 hours annually (due to an obscured horizon).
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Post by Steelernation on Jan 5, 2021 15:04:49 GMT -5
@rg6832614 mine does that too knot Yours looks good but there’s way too many categories. IMO classifications should be more general rather than specific and it gets too confusing. Also, why so low a threshold for your “monsoonal” categories? One month 2 x another month seems pretty uniform to me. FrozenI69 wtf is going on with you’re arid category? There’s plenty of climates that don’t fit into either hot or cold
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Post by FrozenI69 on Jan 5, 2021 15:24:38 GMT -5
@rg6832614 mine does that too knot Yours looks good but there’s way too many categories. IMO classifications should be more general rather than specific and it gets too confusing. Also, why so low a threshold for your “monsoonal” categories? One month 2 x another month seems pretty uniform to me. FrozenI69 wtf is going on with you’re arid category? There’s plenty of climates that don’t fit into either hot or cold Well, you either live in a hot arid climate, or a cold one.
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Post by alex992 on Jan 5, 2021 15:48:40 GMT -5
I'd rather NYC and DC be grouped with Brisbane than the likes of Winnipeg... NYC and DC are not fit to lace the boots of Brisbane, climatically. Having them in the same group as real subtropical climates like Brisbane is ridiculous. There should be a winter mean requirement of 7-8c in the coldest month.
A winter characterised by frost and heavy snow is never subtropical.
DC and NYC aren't exactly characterized by heavy snow either. DC averages 15" of snow a year (38 cm) and NYC averages 28" (71 cm), not exactly super snowy winter climates. Yes, they are susceptible to strong Noreasters which can dump heavy blizzards on them, but saying they're represented by that type of weather is like saying highs in the 15-20 C range characterizes their winters too. Also, Brisbane and DC/NYC are the two far extremes of the subtropical classification, so it's not surprising that they wouldn't have much in common. Both Brisbane and DC are bad examples of an archetypal subtropical climate. I think it's silly to act like subtropical climates can't possibly get cold in winter or have ice/snow on occasion. Even places like Louisiana and Southern Texas can get snowfall events from time to time. DC certainly has more in common climate-wise with somewhere like Atlanta, Birmingham, Nashville, etc than it does with true continental climates such as Des Moines, Minneapolis, Fargo, etc. Winter mean requirement of 7-8 C is far too high. It would be silly to say somewhere like Tallahassee comes only within 2-3 C for qualifying as a continental climate.
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Post by Steelernation on Jan 5, 2021 15:54:34 GMT -5
Well, you either live in a hot arid climate, or a cold one. Don’t respond with a stupid one liner. What about a place with a 25 c summer high but a 12 c winter low? That doesn’t fit into either you’re hot or cold category. Or what if there’s no >20 c highs? Can a place like that not be arid? And apparently Phoenix is now a cold desert, that’s news to me.
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Post by FrozenI69 on Jan 5, 2021 16:40:25 GMT -5
Well, you either live in a hot arid climate, or a cold one. Don’t respond with a stupid one liner. What about a place with a 25 c summer high but a 12 c winter low? That doesn’t fit into either you’re hot or cold category. Or what if there’s no >20 c highs? Can a place like that not be arid? And apparently Phoenix is now a cold desert, that’s news to me. Does Phoenix see average lows below 10 C in winter ? Most hot desert climates like the Sahara and Middle East do not. Most “dry” places I know with a 25 C high in summer and 12 C low in winter come under the warm summer Mediterranean classification.
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