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Post by cawfeefan on Oct 3, 2023 4:36:49 GMT -5
In Australia, recorded maxes, mins and precipitation don't follow the confines of that particular day from midnight to midnight. The BoM considers the minimum to be the lowest temperature recorded from 9am the previous day to 9am today. The maximum is the highest temperature in the 24 hours from 9am today to 9am the next day. Meanwhile, precipitation is recorded in the same time frame as minimum temps, which is the total from 9am yesterday to 9am today. It's not the most intuitive way to record weather data imo, but I think the reason for this is because 9am was a more convenient time to note down observations back in those days when everything was manually recorded.
I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but I know in the US all observations are from that day exactly. In your opinion, which method do you prefer, and are there any particular advantages/downsides of either system? Discuss.
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Post by Benfxmth on Oct 3, 2023 7:33:34 GMT -5
Obviously 12 AM-12 AM. Any other period (e.g. 8 AM-8 AM, or 9 AM-9 AM) is archaic af and in current times, is in a sense a Boteving method if used in automatic stations. Fuck that shit.
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Post by Steelernation on Oct 3, 2023 10:05:32 GMT -5
Midnight-Midnight is the only acceptable option. If the weather for a certain day is being recorded, the data should be from that day, not the prior evening.
Fort Collins uses 7 PM to 7 PM which often ruins interesting cold highs or big precipitation/snow totals. Take this July 31st where 3.5โ of rain fell in an hour but as it came right around the 7 PM cut off, it got sliced in half with 2โ of it being recorded for August 1st. No logic in that.
Similarly it often fucks up cold highs because the previous evening was warmer. Especially in issue in April/May and September where the sun sets late enough that 7 PM is still pretty warm. Ends up double counting some days in terms of highs, while other days only have a low from that day. The high for May 10th should be the highest temp on May 10th, not May 9th.
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Post by firebird1988 on Oct 3, 2023 15:02:45 GMT -5
We use 12am to 12am year round, I remember Riverside used 12am to 12am Standard Time, so it was 1am to 1am during DST
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Post by greysrigging on Oct 3, 2023 16:03:15 GMT -5
I've ticked the BoM method.... not so much because I 100% agree with it....moreso because it has been this way since record keeping began in this country, and its all we know.... the dreaded 9:00am reset.
Can and does cruel record days on occaisions a la Brisvegas in Dec last year....an 18c cold day record became a non record with 23c at 8.59am the next morning.
But makes no difference to long term means....
The whole system is a throwback to when observations were done manually from Post offices around the country... major obs were taken at 9.00am and 3.00pm.
Way out in the woop woop outback, the one contant in peoples lives were the Post Office opening at 9.00am in the morning....
So the BoM was formed in 1908 and manual observations were the norm AU wide until the early / mid 1990's with the introduction of AWS....so really only 30 years of AWS obs as opposed to 80 to 90 years of manual obs.....in fact there are still many outback sites that are sill manual obs only.
I doubt the AU BoM will ever change its reporting methods.
I haven't bothered looking up what the WMO standard methods is....?
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Post by tommyFL on Oct 3, 2023 17:06:18 GMT -5
No preference, as long as it's consistent within a station network which often isn't the case.
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Post by ๐๐ฟMรถrรถn๐๐ฟ on Oct 3, 2023 20:20:52 GMT -5
Logically 12am-12am makes the most sense. Long term, it really doesn't matter either way though, unless you care about meaningless records that might change depending on the use of 9am-9am or 12am-12am.
As for Melbourne, it especially wouldn't make a difference with 3:30am temps of 5C and 28C a day apart.
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Post by Ariete on Oct 4, 2023 4:26:15 GMT -5
I haven't bothered looking up what the WMO standard methods is....?
8am-8pm standard time.
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Post by cawfeefan on Oct 4, 2023 7:28:01 GMT -5
Guess I was wrong about every place in the US using midnight to midnight observations.
If I had to pick, I would use the midnight method just to be straightforward. However, I'm fine with any time frame as it wouldn't affect the long term averages. There can be maxes and mins at unusual times anyway so changing the method wouldn't do much, especially in places like Melbourne.
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Post by Ethereal on Oct 4, 2023 8:12:34 GMT -5
12 am to 12 am is the most appropriate.
9 AM-9 AM is fucking stupid. Not sure why BOM does this.
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Oct 4, 2023 16:48:23 GMT -5
Midnight to midnight, anything else is just stupid and arbitrary
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Post by flamingGalah on Oct 4, 2023 18:02:32 GMT -5
The UK Met Office also uses 9am to 9am, simply because when all weather stations were manual that's the time of day the observers recorded the daily max/min temperatures. So that records & data can be consistent & compared to long standing observations, it makes sense for them to continue to use this method.
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Post by greysrigging on Oct 5, 2023 3:58:43 GMT -5
The UK Met Office also uses 9am to 9am, simply because when all weather stations were manual that's the time of day the observers recorded the daily max/min temperatures. So that records & data can be consistent & compared to long standing observations, it makes sense for them to continue to use this method. ^^ exactly... which is why I'm mostly OK with the status quo in this country... AWS only been around for 30 or so years.... I also want the consistancy and compareabilty re record keeping. |
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Post by jetshnl on Oct 6, 2023 17:06:43 GMT -5
Canada used to be like this but changed it in the 1960s. Works out to midnight to midnight here. There was a paper written on the change and itโs impact on average temperatures: tinyurl.com/42xje23s |
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Post by srfoskey on Oct 6, 2023 22:20:00 GMT -5
The UK Met Office also uses 9am to 9am, simply because when all weather stations were manual that's the time of day the observers recorded the daily max/min temperatures. So that records & data can be consistent & compared to long standing observations, it makes sense for them to continue to use this method. In the US they used to record observations thrice daily, once around 7 am, once around noon, and once around 5 pm. The high would be the highest of those values and the low would be the lowest. But then they changed it to midnight to midnight later.
I think the UK should at least do midnight to midnight for all new stations. It just matches up with the day a lot better.
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Post by flamingGalah on Oct 7, 2023 13:13:30 GMT -5
The UK Met Office also uses 9am to 9am, simply because when all weather stations were manual that's the time of day the observers recorded the daily max/min temperatures. So that records & data can be consistent & compared to long standing observations, it makes sense for them to continue to use this method. In the US they used to record observations thrice daily, once around 7 am, once around noon, and once around 5 pm. The high would be the highest of those values and the low would be the lowest. But then they changed it to midnight to midnight later.
I think the UK should at least do midnight to midnight for all new stations. It just matches up with the day a lot better.
I guess because the UK has the oldest weather records in the world they want to keep it as consistent as possible, I don't think it really makes a huge difference in the grand scale of things anyway. |
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Post by greysrigging on Oct 7, 2023 16:30:32 GMT -5
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Post by Cadeau on Oct 12, 2023 22:50:27 GMT -5
I believe France uses 06h-06h(next day) UTC for maximum & 18h(previous day)-18h UTC for minimum. This one stretches into 36 hours of recording to complete data considering individual elements and 12 hours of overlapping during a traditional daytime hours(06-18h).
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