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Post by deneb78 on Jan 25, 2024 15:59:10 GMT -5
I have been giving this some thought and thought about my own threshold.
Others may have different thresholds or simply say winter is the coolest period of the year.
For me, if your climate averages at least 1 say with an average temperature of 0C or less a year, then you have a real winter. The winter might be extremely short but it exists.
A classic 4 season climate would need at least 90 days at this threshold. I went on weather.gov and looked up a few cities in the US and corresponding border Canadian cities to give a length of their winters using 1991-2020 data:
Seattle, WA - 5 days
Portland, OR - 5 days
Vancouver, BC (Blaine, WA) - 13 days
Niagara Falls, NY/ON - 85 days
Detroit, MI (Windsor, ON) - 71 days
Oklahoma City, OK - 20 days
Dallas, TX - 4 days
Houston, TX - 1 day
Boston, MA - 50 days
New York, NY - 34 days
Washington, DC - 21 days
Myrtle Beach, SC - 4 days
It would be curious to see what the stats are using this metric with other cities around the world. I suspect none of the major Australian cities with the possible exception of Canberra would meet this threshold.
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Post by tommyFL on Jan 25, 2024 17:16:25 GMT -5
10 F cooler than summer
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Post by Steelernation on Jan 25, 2024 17:32:12 GMT -5
Anywhere that’s not equatorial—winter somewhat cooler than summer and/or a difference in daylight.
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Post by Ariete on Jan 25, 2024 17:51:02 GMT -5
Turku averages 79 days with a mean below 0C (2003-2023), so it has clearly a real winter.
I would someplace like DC is on the border for what I personally consider a "real winter". Places like London and Paris only have a very long autumn.
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Post by Cheeseman on Jan 25, 2024 22:17:57 GMT -5
It has to be below -90 C for at least two months on end or else it's just a really long autumn!!!!!!!111 |
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Post by Beercules on Jan 26, 2024 5:53:50 GMT -5
Melbourne and under.
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Post by MET on Jan 26, 2024 7:49:04 GMT -5
Winter to me is the short daylight season basically.
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Jan 26, 2024 14:16:32 GMT -5
Any month with a mean temp of below 62ºF (17ºC) that is also significantly cooler than the most of the rest of the year.
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Post by tommyFL on Jan 26, 2024 22:38:22 GMT -5
Any month with a mean temp of below 62ºF (17ºC) that is also significantly cooler than the most of the rest of the year. So what exactly makes a mean temp of 61 F wintry but a mean temp of 62 F not wintry? |
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Jan 26, 2024 22:44:12 GMT -5
Any month with a mean temp of below 62ºF (17ºC) that is also significantly cooler than the most of the rest of the year. So what exactly makes a mean temp of 61 F wintry but a mean temp of 62 F not wintry? Good question. It makes sense to use some common indicator plants for defining these thresholds. 62ºF mean is just about the isotherm that coconut palms, a common indicator plant for tropicality, require for survival. In consistently mild conditions they will not survive, they need this certain level of warmth.
So what exactly makes <62ºF means wintry? I define any climate with all months 62ºF+ as tropical in my system. Tropical climates lack winter, or at least a "real" winter.
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Post by tommyFL on Jan 26, 2024 22:53:14 GMT -5
So what exactly makes a mean temp of 61 F wintry but a mean temp of 62 F not wintry? Good question. It makes sense to use some common indicator plants for defining these thresholds. 62ºF mean is just about the isotherm that coconut palms, a common indicator plant for tropicality, require for survival. In consistently mild conditions they will not survive, they need this certain level of warmth.
So what exactly makes <62ºF means wintry? I define any climate with all months 62ºF+ as tropical in my system. Tropical climates lack winter, or at least a "real" winter.
Tampa drops to near-freezing every year, January is 22 F cooler than August, yet doesn't have a winter in your "system". I think you should rephrase to say it doesn't have a continental winter that you are used to having. Saying Tampa has no winter at all is a bit ridiculous. And honestly, coconut palms are a terrible indicator of whether a climate is tropical since most tropical climates have no coconut palms are all. They only grow naturally on the immediate coastline. |
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Post by greysrigging on Jan 27, 2024 0:43:53 GMT -5
Good question. It makes sense to use some common indicator plants for defining these thresholds. 62ºF mean is just about the isotherm that coconut palms, a common indicator plant for tropicality, require for survival. In consistently mild conditions they will not survive, they need this certain level of warmth.
So what exactly makes <62ºF means wintry? I define any climate with all months 62ºF+ as tropical in my system. Tropical climates lack winter, or at least a "real" winter.
Tampa drops to near-freezing every year, January is 22 F cooler than August, yet doesn't have a winter in your "system". I think you should rephrase to say it doesn't have a continental winter that you are used to having. Saying Tampa has no winter at all is a bit ridiculous. And honestly, coconut palms are a terrible indicator of whether a climate is tropical since most tropical climates have no coconut palms are all. They only grow naturally on the immediate coastline. In AU, many regard the coconut as an indicator of our version of 'subtropicality'..... everyone knows they thrive and fruit north of the Tropic of Capricorn... and do ok as far south as the very northern coastal parts of NSW.... but any further south than the mid north coast of NSW is a no-no. Wont survive in Sydney either.... |
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Post by dunnowhattoputhere on Jan 27, 2024 5:49:15 GMT -5
I guess this depends on what winter means to you. If it's just cold, snowy weather and nothing else, then somewhere like DC definitely doesn't have a proper winter - it's perfectly capable of getting quite cold but not for long, and is equally capable of getting quite warm, as the yesterday's record-breaking 80 degree day showed. If it's just being noticeably cooler than the summer then even places like Tampa have a 'proper' winter.
Personally it's hard not to view our winters as just a long, boring autumn, but the vey short days easily remind you that it's still winter.
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Post by MET on Jan 27, 2024 8:21:48 GMT -5
In the purely meteorological sense, I don't even think my area has a proper winter. More like a protracted autumn leading into an early spring. It's a sunny mildish day here today and I have that spring feeling already. The weather all of this winter has been far too mild to wear a coat. We've also only had two days with snow so far this winter too which seems about all we get these days.
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Post by Benfxmth on Jan 27, 2024 8:26:15 GMT -5
Good question. It makes sense to use some common indicator plants for defining these thresholds. 62ºF mean is just about the isotherm that coconut palms, a common indicator plant for tropicality, require for survival. In consistently mild conditions they will not survive, they need this certain level of warmth.
So what exactly makes <62ºF means wintry? I define any climate with all months 62ºF+ as tropical in my system. Tropical climates lack winter, or at least a "real" winter.
Tampa drops to near-freezing every year, January is 22 F cooler than August, yet doesn't have a winter in your "system". I think you should rephrase to say it doesn't have a continental winter that you are used to having. Saying Tampa has no winter at all is a bit ridiculous. And honestly, coconut palms are a terrible indicator of whether a climate is tropical since most tropical climates have no coconut palms are all. They only grow naturally on the immediate coastline. Exactly, and it'd also be hard to mistake, let's say, January from July or August in Tampa even if you aren't a weather nerd |
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Post by AJ1013 on Jan 27, 2024 8:28:33 GMT -5
Why 10F and not 9F or 11F? Hmmmmmm |
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Post by kronan2 on Jan 27, 2024 8:28:41 GMT -5
a monthly mean below 0C
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Post by Ariete on Jan 27, 2024 9:09:22 GMT -5
So what exactly makes a mean temp of 61 F wintry but a mean temp of 62 F not wintry?
There has to be a cut-off point somewhere.
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Post by 🖕🏿Mörön🖕🏿 on Jan 28, 2024 19:34:51 GMT -5
Definition:
Whatever feels more like winter than what does not.
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