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Post by cawfeefan on Apr 3, 2024 3:53:20 GMT -5
B+, pretty decent but summer lows are a bit too cool
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Post by Ethereal on Apr 3, 2024 20:26:37 GMT -5
D- for being detestable for Aussie standards. The winter sunshine is abominable and inexcusable for sure. The town is extremely windward, very exposed to "icy" westerlies from the southwest, hence the frequent cloud cover in winter. This climate is more suited to be somewhere in France or northern Spain. But then again, Victoria is very cool for its latitude as summers go (looks at you Failbourne). Either way, Australia is indeed pretty mild and lacking for its latitude dare I say. For the analysts in here, are the sunshine hours even accurate? Can youse check on them on the town's BOM page and see if the conversions are correct? I don't know, something tells me they're a bit understated. They're more Tasmanian level of winter sunshine, and even Tasmanian cities aren't that cloudy in winter! They are taken from the BoM page stats I posted up earlier, accurate it seems. I know they're found in the BOM stats, but the conversion from daily to monthly sunshine hours can get tricky and the results could end up inaccurate. |
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Post by Beercules on Apr 3, 2024 21:01:24 GMT -5
C+ ...I grew up in Northern Vic, so used to this sorta climate.... reasonably bland, once in a blue moon there is some extreme heat, nothing extreme re cold there in the foothills of the Great Dividing Ranges. So, bland and inoffensive deserves a C+. All that is exactly why it's offensive. Starting with the arctic circle crummer lows. |
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Post by Beercules on Apr 3, 2024 21:04:39 GMT -5
D- for being detestable for Aussie standards. The winter sunshine is abominable and inexcusable for sure. The town is extremely windward, very exposed to "icy" westerlies from the southwest, hence the frequent cloud cover in winter. This climate is more suited to be somewhere in France or northern Spain. But then again, Victoria is very cool for its latitude as summers go (looks at you Failbourne). Either way, Australia is indeed pretty mild and lacking for its latitude dare I say. For the analysts in here, are the sunshine hours even accurate? Can youse check on them on the town's BOM page and see if the conversions are correct? I don't know, something tells me they're a bit understated. They're more Tasmanian level of winter sunshine, and even Tasmanian cities aren't that cloudy in winter! It's not by mistake that SE Aus is regarded as having the coldest crummers in the world for the latitude. |
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Post by Ethereal on Apr 3, 2024 21:34:31 GMT -5
D- for being detestable for Aussie standards. The winter sunshine is abominable and inexcusable for sure. The town is extremely windward, very exposed to "icy" westerlies from the southwest, hence the frequent cloud cover in winter. This climate is more suited to be somewhere in France or northern Spain. But then again, Victoria is very cool for its latitude as summers go (looks at you Failbourne). Either way, Australia is indeed pretty mild and lacking for its latitude dare I say. For the analysts in here, are the sunshine hours even accurate? Can youse check on them on the town's BOM page and see if the conversions are correct? I don't know, something tells me they're a bit understated. They're more Tasmanian level of winter sunshine, and even Tasmanian cities aren't that cloudy in winter! It's not by mistake that SE Aus is regarded as having the coldest crummers in the world for the latitude. That's why Sydney should've been where Perth is. I'd place Melbourne in what is now Esperance (I know, I know, it is a bit crummy there in the summer but they're far sunnier and can get consistently hot temperatures, at least compared to Melb - I should make a climate battle between the two lmao). And Albany for our capital (Canberra)....I believe Albany is also halfway between Perth and Esperance... Southwest Aus is overall sunny, reliable hot (in summer). mild winters and it has huge arable Med-style lands, albeit with summer drought (cities in the "cradle of civilization" all have summer droughts either way and have been Mediterranean-ish). Our British forefathers set foot on the wrong land, guessing SE Aus reminded them more of home. |
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Post by Steelernation on Apr 3, 2024 21:42:54 GMT -5
For the analysts in here, are the sunshine hours even accurate? Can youse check on them on the town's BOM page and see if the conversions are correct? I don't know, something tells me they're a bit understated. They're more Tasmanian level of winter sunshine, and even Tasmanian cities aren't that cloudy in winter! Have some imagination, this is now like the third time you’ve just automatically assumed someplace had wrong sunshine hours just because it’s not what you expected. So many idiots who go “hmm not what fits with my expected view so must be wrong” |
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Post by fairweatherfan on Apr 3, 2024 21:55:40 GMT -5
They are taken from the BoM page stats I posted up earlier, accurate it seems. I know they're found in the BOM stats, but the conversion from daily to monthly sunshine hours can get tricky and the results could end up inaccurate. The conversion is pretty simple actually |
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Post by Ethereal on Apr 4, 2024 0:37:48 GMT -5
For the analysts in here, are the sunshine hours even accurate? Can youse check on them on the town's BOM page and see if the conversions are correct? I don't know, something tells me they're a bit understated. They're more Tasmanian level of winter sunshine, and even Tasmanian cities aren't that cloudy in winter! Have some imagination, this is now like the third time you’ve just automatically assumed someplace had wrong sunshine hours just because it’s not what you expected. So many idiots who go “hmm not what fits with my expected view so must be wrong” What a brazen and unfounded assumption! Wikipedia tends to have inaccurate sunshine figures (half of the time they're taken from Weather-Atlas) and at times people convert them inaccurately (even if they're from an accurate source). Surely you'd know this as you've been on the weather forum for years now? Pleading ignorance I guess. As for the latter claim, I just shat on Lake Eildon and openly declared that Victoria has the worst summers for its latitude. So yeah, um, my "expected view" of it goes hand in hand with Wikipedia's sunshine hours. But maybe unlike you, I give the benefit of the doubt from time to time? Big deal! |
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Post by Beercules on Apr 4, 2024 1:13:53 GMT -5
It's not by mistake that SE Aus is regarded as having the coldest crummers in the world for the latitude. That's why Sydney should've been where Perth is. I'd place Melbourne in what is now Esperance (I know, I know, it is a bit crummy there in the summer but they're far sunnier and can get consistently hot temperatures, at least compared to Melb - I should make a climate battle between the two lmao). And Albany for our capital (Canberra)....I believe Albany is also halfway between Perth and Esperance... Southwest Aus is overall sunny, reliable hot (in summer). mild winters and it has huge arable Med-style lands, albeit with summer drought (cities in the "cradle of civilization" all have summer droughts either way and have been Mediterranean-ish). Our British forefathers set foot on the wrong land, guessing SE Aus reminded them more of home. Esperance doesn't get consistently hot temps, and I seriously doubt it is "far sunnier" than Melbourne either. I't summer temps, both avgs and the actual daily temp patterns, are very similar to Melbourne. London with a couple of hot days. |
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Post by greysrigging on Apr 4, 2024 1:30:24 GMT -5
Whoever made the Wikibox followed the BoM figures to the letter....what more can one do other than physically live there and keep a diary for 30 years ? And knowing AA, I'd be betting he has made/edited the Wikibox. So the sunshine hours are simply a mean value.... sure as shit depending on wet winter seasons/dry winter seasons the figures will vary substantially. quote - "I know they're found in the BOM stats, but the conversion from daily to monthly sunshine hours can get tricky and the results could end up inaccurate." Here it is again:  So the Wikibox figures are simply the mean daily sunshine hours for the month multiplied by the number of days in the month and the total is the monthly and then yearly mean totals. Recording sunshine hours has never really been a thing outside of the bigger cities and agricultural research stations and other Govt sites. From the BoM Climate Data Page: Mean daily sunshine (h): Average number of hours of bright sunshine each day in a calendar month or year, calculated over the period of record. Hours of bright sunshine is measured from midnight to midnight. Within the Bureau of Meteorology network bright sunshine has generally been recorded with a Campbell-Stokes recorder. This device only measures the duration of “bright” sunshine, which is less than the amount of “visible” sunshine. For example, sunshine immediately after sunrise and just before sunset is visible, but would not be bright enough to register on the Campbell-Stokes recorder. Mean daily solar exposure (MJ/m2): The averaged amount of daily solar energy reaching a specific location on the Earth’s surface in a calendar month or year, calculated over the period of record. The solar exposure provided in these statistics has been estimated from satellite imagery. Divide the values by 3.6 to convert from units of megajoules per square metre (MJ/m2) to kilowatt-hours per square metre (kWh/m2). Mean number of clear days: Average number of clear days in a calendar month or year, calculated over the period of record. This statistic is derived from cloud cover observations, which are measured in oktas (eighths). The sky is visually inspected to produce an estimate of the number of eighths of the dome of the sky covered by cloud. A completely clear sky is recorded as zero okta, while a totally overcast sky is 8 oktas. The presence of any trace of cloud in an otherwise blue sky is recorded as 1 okta, and similarly any trace of blue on an otherwise cloudy sky is recorded as 7 oktas. A clear day is recorded when the mean of the 9 am and 3 pm cloud observations is less than or equal to 2 oktas. This definition has changed slightly over time. Prior to this, a clear day was defined as having less than or equal to 2.5 oktas averaged over the 9 am and 3 pm observations. Mean number of cloudy days: Average number of cloudy days in a calendar month or year, calculated over the period of record. This statistic is derived from cloud cover observations, which are measured in oktas (eighths). The sky is visually inspected to produce an estimate of the number of eighths of the dome of the sky covered by cloud. A completely clear sky is recorded as zero okta, while a totally overcast sky is 8 oktas. The presence of any trace of cloud in an otherwise blue sky is recorded as 1 okta, and similarly any trace of blue on an otherwise cloudy sky is recorded as 7 oktas. A cloudy day is recorded when the mean of the 9 am and 3 pm cloud observations is greater than or equal to 6 oktas. This definition has changed slightly over time. Prior to this, a cloudy day was defined as having greater than or equal to 5.5 oktas averaged over the 9 am and 3 pm observations. |
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Post by greysrigging on Apr 4, 2024 2:50:22 GMT -5
^^ and something else I've picked up on.... the sunshine hours for the Melbourne Regional Office on the Wikibox are actually the hours from Melbourne Airport 24 kmn to the north west ... hardly reflects upon the CBD... the difference is approx 200 hours per year greater at the Airport than in the CBD. Qualify this by saying there is a much longer POV of published sunshine records at the Airport than at the CBD site.... 13 years at the MRO and 21 years at the Airport. BoM records for the MRO:  The Wikibox using Airport sunshine hours:  BoM records for the Melb Airport:  The Airport Wikibox:  |
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Post by Steelernation on Apr 4, 2024 13:03:46 GMT -5
What a brazen and unfounded assumption! Wikipedia tends to have inaccurate sunshine figures (half of the time they're taken from Weather-Atlas) and at times people convert them inaccurately (even if they're from an accurate source). Surely you'd know this as you've been on the weather forum for years now? Pleading ignorance I guess. As for the latter claim, I just shat on Lake Eildon and openly declared that Victoria has the worst summers for its latitude. So yeah, um, my "expected view" of it goes hand in hand with Wikipedia's sunshine hours. But maybe unlike you, I give the benefit of the doubt from time to time? Big deal! Of course they’re inaccurate when they’re from weatheratlas but these aren’t from weatheratlas. Personally I’ve never seen inaccurate sunshine hours when they’re from official sources like the BOM. You literally said “something tells me they’re understated” and then mentioned how those hours are more like Tasmania, so yes it didn’t fit with what you expected. |
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Post by Ethereal on Apr 4, 2024 20:30:48 GMT -5
What a brazen and unfounded assumption! Wikipedia tends to have inaccurate sunshine figures (half of the time they're taken from Weather-Atlas) and at times people convert them inaccurately (even if they're from an accurate source). Surely you'd know this as you've been on the weather forum for years now? Pleading ignorance I guess. As for the latter claim, I just shat on Lake Eildon and openly declared that Victoria has the worst summers for its latitude. So yeah, um, my "expected view" of it goes hand in hand with Wikipedia's sunshine hours. But maybe unlike you, I give the benefit of the doubt from time to time? Big deal! Of course they’re inaccurate when they’re from weatheratlas but these aren’t from weatheratlas. Personally I’ve never seen inaccurate sunshine hours when they’re from official sources like the BOM. You literally said “something tells me they’re understated” and then mentioned how those hours are more like Tasmania, so yes it didn’t fit with what you expected. You misunderstood me. Of course an official source provides accurate Wikipedia figures. However, people can be really dodgy when they convert daily hours to monthly. It's happened and I remember people like Rwood (RIP) picking that up. I was just giving the benefit of the doubt. Yes, the sunshine hours are more akin to those of Tasmania than anywhere in the vicinity. But I did concede (and lamented) that Victoria is pretty cool and anemic for its latitude either way. |
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