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Post by MET on Nov 15, 2024 21:25:50 GMT -5
On Netweather, members use an index to rate summers, initially created for the climate of Manchester, but can be applicable to anywhere. It is a basic formula that takes into account the average maximum temperature of the three summers months, the total sunshine hours of those months, and the total rain days of those months. The formula is as follows: 10 × ( ( 21.3 ) + ( 535 ) ÷ 67 - ( 39 ÷ 8 )) = Where 21.3 is the average max temp, 535 is the total sun hours, and 39 is the total rain days in this example. Manchester's summer index for the 1991-2020 period is 233.2. Its main usefulness is in comparing different summers in a particular location against other years' summers. It can still be applied to any location in the world, however, because this particular index was devised for a UK location, it associates better scores with fewer rain days and more sunshine, though that might not appeal to everyone. But in that case, anyone is free to make a modified summer index where more rain days are better or whatever. The Summer Index for various world locations:  |
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 12:01:06 GMT -5
100 cities of the world ranked by Summer Index, high to low. So, where does a "crummer" begin? I prefer cooler summers personally, with an index somewhere between 250-300. That range would probably still be considered "crummers". But since I don't like warmer summers, seems like I'm not the best to define a "crummer". So, where does a "crummer" start? Below 350?
Yuma, USA 581.3
Dubai, UAE 557.2
Las Vegas, USA 556.9
Alice Springs, Australia 479.2
Madrid, Spain 446.4
Marseille, France 444.2
Islamabad, Pakistan 442.6
Neuquen, Argentina 436.1
Rome, Italy 435.4
Faro, Portugal 432.9
Tampa, USA 411.5
Ankara, Turkey 409
Cape Town, SA 407.9
New Orleans, USA 393.7
Barcelona, Spain 388.5
Chicago, USA 379.2
Buenos Aires, Argentina 374.9
Medicine Hat, Canada 373.5
Lyon, France 364.2
Beijing, China 362.6
New York City, USA 360.2
Madison, USA 358.1
Boston, USA 356.8
Melbourne, AUS 344.2
Sydney, Australia 334.2
Toronto, CA 333.2
San Francisco, USA 325.9
Binghamton, USA 324.6
Victoria, Canada 322.3
Napier, NZ 321.9
Whangarei City, NZ 321
East London, SA 319
Tokyo, Japan 315.4
Paris, France 315
Johannesburg, SA 310.8
Seoul, SK 307.5
Ponta Delgada 303.6
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia 303.4
Bilbao, Spain 303.2
Vancouver, CA 302.9
Auckland, NZ 302.8
Portsmouth, UK 297.7
Berlin, Germany 297
Turku, Finland 296.5
London, UK 292.7
Christchurch, NZ 291.6
Moscow, Russia 291.5
Hobart, AUS 290.9
Walvis Bay, Namibia 290.2
Manston, UK 288.1
Zurich, Switzerland 287.5
Eastbourne, UK 283.6
Shanklin, UK 282.4
Fairbanks, USA 281.5
Helsinki, Finland 278.7
Charlottetown, CA 278.6
Salzburg, AU 276.3
Eureka, USA 274.9
Amsterdam, ND 273.5
Weymouth, UK 272.3
Wellington, NZ 267.6
Bristol, UK 265.1
Copenhagen, DN 262.1
Lincoln, UK 260.2
Brussels, Belgium 260.1
Hamburg, Germany 259.1
Puerto Montt, Chile 255.7
Birmingham, UK 250.2
Sheffield, UK 249.6
Anchorage, USA 246.1
Brest, France 245.8
Scilly Isles, UK 244.3
Amsterdam Island 239.5
Manchester, UK 233.2
St John’s, Canada 231.4
Durham, UK 231
Dunedin, NZ 229.6
Gander, Canada 226.8
Punta Arenas, Chile 225.9
Invercargill, NZ 225.6
Dublin, Ireland 219.9
Edinburgh, UK 219
Buxton, UK 211.4
Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, RU 210.3
Glasgow, UK 210.1
Belfast, UK 205.9
Aberdeen, UK 205.4
Norilsk, Russia 198.7
Shannon, Ireland 196
Aviemore, UK 193
Gough Island 187.5
Oban, UK 184.5
Juneau, USA 184.4
Arosa, Switzerland 179.9
Murmansk, Russia 170.5
Stornoway, UK 169.4
Lerwick, UK 154.1
Nuuk, Greenland 138.7
Torshavn, DN 135
Macquarie Island, AUS 40.2
Then here's the summer's I've experienced in Sheffield since 2018. 2018 was the best and 2020 the worst.
2018 315.6
2019 246.1
2020 221.2
2021 259.2
2022 308.4
2023 237.5
2024 261.6
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 13:09:09 GMT -5
Anyone whose good at this mathematical stuff, can modify the formula to make a summer index system that suits their own preferences.
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Nov 16, 2024 13:23:27 GMT -5
Interesting index. Doesn't take low temps into account which is a major flaw, and total rainfall would be a far better variable than rain days.
I propose the following changes with the following formula based on an altered version of the one you show above. 100 x ( average June-August daily mean temp in ºF + average June-August % possible sunshine ) ÷ ( 67 - ( Total June-August rainfall in inches ÷ 8 )) = index result.
Atlanta over the 1991-2020 period would be 100 x ( 79.7 + 63.7 ) ÷ ( 67 - ( 13.59 ÷ 8 )) = 219.6
What do you think about this MET ? |
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 13:24:48 GMT -5
Interesting index. Doesn't take low temps into account which is a major flaw, and total rainfall would be a far better variable than rain days.
I propose the following changes with the following formula based on an altered version of the one you show above. 100 x ( average June-August daily mean temp in ºF + average June-August % possible sunshine ) ÷ ( 67 - ( Total June-August rainfall in inches ÷ 8 )) = index result.
Atlanta over the 1991-2020 period would be 100 x ( 79.7 + 63.7 ) ÷ ( 67 - ( 13.59 ÷ 8 )) = 219.6
What do you think about this MET ? For a worldwide basis that would be better for sure. The simple Manchester Index probably didn't use lows because it was basically for the UK, and lows tend to be similar whether summers are shit or decent. |
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Post by Crunch41 on Nov 16, 2024 13:45:29 GMT -5
This is a little weird to me, but I like numbers so I did a few.
Looking at your list, above 250 or so I would enjoy the summers, below that there would be some poor ones. Below 200 I don't think I would enjoy summer in any of those places.
The highest I could be OK with is probably around 400, maybe a little higher. 30/15C and sunny every day is boring but not terrible.
Vostok Antarctica: 7.2 It does not have precipitation days on the wiki box, so I used zero. The max temp only reaches -27C in the warmest month but the sun hours are insanely high.
Death Valley: 629.9. I used Las Vegas sun hours so it might be a little off.
Milwaukee: 362.3 Minneapolis: 378.8 Minneapolis is sunnier and can get more heat waves in summer. Better in most ways for a continental climate lover.
Yakutsk: 322.2. 14 rainy days seems high for such a dry climate, but a lot of Russian weather boxes are like this.
Murmansk: 170.5. Definitely in crummer territory
Mumbai has a huge dry/wet contrast:
Mumbai build-up March - May: 452.3
Mumbai wet season July - September: 276.5
Chongqing Shapingba July - September: 342.8.
September has fewer rain days, so it's slightly higher than June. If it averaged 300 sun hours instead of 150, the score would be 410. Still very high for a climate most people would hate. Shapingba is the cloudiest, warmest station on wiki.
For Antarctica stations, November to January was slightly higher because of more sun hours.
Orcadas Base, Antarctica: -13.3 (avg high peaks at 3.6C)
Esperanza Base, Antarctica: 53.6 (avg high peaks at 4.3C)
Esperanza Base is fairly sunny for a coastal station in Antarctica while Orcadas is cloudy all the time.
Wadi Halfa: 565.2.
Kuwait City: 596.6.
Death Valley is higher than these, but I think it's mostly because US sun hours are higher.
Sacramento 514.3. If it "only" had 300 sun hours it would be 460.
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 13:50:24 GMT -5
This is a little weird to me, but maybe it makes sense for them. What do they consider a crummer? Below 200?
Vostok Antarctica: 7.2 It does not have precipitation days on the wiki box, so I used zero. The max temp only reaches -27C in the warmest month but the sun hours are insanely high.
Death Valley: 629.9. I used Las Vegas sun hours so it might be a little off.
Milwaukee: 362.3 Minneapolis: 378.8 Minneapolis is sunnier and can get more heat waves in summer. Better in most ways for a continental climate lover.
Yakutsk: 322.2. 14 rainy days seems high for such a dry climate, but a lot of Russian weather boxes are like this.
Murmansk: 170.5. Definitely in crummer territory
Mumbai has a huge dry/wet contrast:
Mumbai build-up March - May: 452.3
Mumbai wet season July - September: 276.5
Chongqing Shapingba July - September: 342.8.
September has fewer rain days, so it's slightly higher than June. If it averaged 300 sun hours instead of 150, the score would be 410. Still very high for a climate most people would hate. Shapingba is the cloudiest, warmest station on wiki.
For Antarctica stations, November to January was slightly higher because of more sun hours.
Orcadas Base, Antarctica: -13.3 (avg high peaks at 3.6C)
Esperanza Base, Antarctica: 53.6 (avg high peaks at 4.3C)
Esperanza Base is fairly sunny for a coastal station in Antarctica while Orcadas is cloudy all the time.
Wadi Halfa: 565.2.
Kuwait City: 596.6.
Death Valley is higher than these, but I think it's mostly because US sun hours are higher.
Sacramento 514.3. If it "only" had 300 sun hours it would be 460.
It makes sense in the context of the UK climate if comparing different years in the same place, basically. Not sure what they would call a crummer though! On netweather probably anything below 12°c average. Applying it to world cities was a bit of fun, it doesn't make as much sense worldwide which is why its good that its easy to modify the formula as one wishes. |
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Post by CRISPR on Nov 16, 2024 14:38:11 GMT -5
For Ulladulla (1990-2024)- where sunshine is borrowed from the old Nowra AWS, rainy days are (≥ 1.0 mm) and daily mean temp is ((max + min) / 2) MET's Formula: 10 × ( ( 23.9 ) + ( 620.5 ) ÷ 67 - ( 95.5 ÷ 8 )) = 319.7Crunch41's Formula: 100 × ( 69.0 + 48.9 ) ÷ (67 - ( 11.66 ÷ 8)) = 179.9 |
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 19:38:36 GMT -5
This modified version uses mean temperature, sun hours and raindays, but where rain days have been given less than half the weighting so as not to affect the result so badly.
=10*((25)+(300)/67-(7/20)) = 291.3
The following places would get these scores:
New Orleans 382.5
Cape Town 360
Sheffield 229.3
Oceanicville 245.7
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Post by jgtheone on Nov 16, 2024 20:51:42 GMT -5
100 cities of the world ranked by Summer Index, high to low. So, where does a "crummer" begin? I prefer cooler summers personally, with an index somewhere between 250-300. That range would probably still be considered "crummers". But since I don't like warmer summers, seems like I'm not the best to define a "crummer". So, where does a "crummer" start? Below 350? Yuma, USA 581.3 Dubai, UAE 557.2 Las Vegas, USA 556.9 Alice Springs, Australia 479.2 Madrid, Spain 446.4 Marseille, France 444.2 Islamabad, Pakistan 442.6 Neuquen, Argentina 436.1 Rome, Italy 435.4 Faro, Portugal 432.9 Tampa, USA 411.5 Ankara, Turkey 409 Cape Town, SA 407.9 New Orleans, USA 393.7 Barcelona, Spain 388.5 Chicago, USA 379.2 Buenos Aires, Argentina 374.9 Medicine Hat, Canada 373.5 Lyon, France 364.2 Beijing, China 362.6 New York City, USA 360.2 Madison, USA 358.1 Boston, USA 356.8 Melbourne, AUS 344.2 Sydney, Australia 334.2 Toronto, CA 333.2 San Francisco, USA 325.9 Binghamton, USA 324.6 Victoria, Canada 322.3 Napier, NZ 321.9 Whangarei City, NZ 321 East London, SA 319 Tokyo, Japan 315.4 Paris, France 315 Johannesburg, SA 310.8 Seoul, SK 307.5 Ponta Delgada 303.6 Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia 303.4 Bilbao, Spain 303.2 Vancouver, CA 302.9 Auckland, NZ 302.8 Portsmouth, UK 297.7 Berlin, Germany 297 Turku, Finland 296.5 London, UK 292.7 Christchurch, NZ 291.6 Moscow, Russia 291.5 Hobart, AUS 290.9 Walvis Bay, Namibia 290.2 Manston, UK 288.1 Zurich, Switzerland 287.5 Eastbourne, UK 283.6 Shanklin, UK 282.4 Fairbanks, USA 281.5 Helsinki, Finland 278.7 Charlottetown, CA 278.6 Salzburg, AU 276.3 Eureka, USA 274.9 Amsterdam, ND 273.5 Weymouth, UK 272.3 Wellington, NZ 267.6 Bristol, UK 265.1 Copenhagen, DN 262.1 Lincoln, UK 260.2 Brussels, Belgium 260.1 Hamburg, Germany 259.1 Puerto Montt, Chile 255.7 Birmingham, UK 250.2 Sheffield, UK 249.6 Anchorage, USA 246.1 Brest, France 245.8 Scilly Isles, UK 244.3 Amsterdam Island 239.5 Manchester, UK 233.2 St John’s, Canada 231.4 Durham, UK 231 Dunedin, NZ 229.6 Gander, Canada 226.8 Punta Arenas, Chile 225.9 Invercargill, NZ 225.6 Dublin, Ireland 219.9 Edinburgh, UK 219 Buxton, UK 211.4 Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, RU 210.3 Glasgow, UK 210.1 Belfast, UK 205.9 Aberdeen, UK 205.4 Norilsk, Russia 198.7 Shannon, Ireland 196 Aviemore, UK 193 Gough Island 187.5 Oban, UK 184.5 Juneau, USA 184.4 Arosa, Switzerland 179.9 Murmansk, Russia 170.5 Stornoway, UK 169.4 Lerwick, UK 154.1 Nuuk, Greenland 138.7 Torshavn, DN 135 Macquarie Island, AUS 40.2 Then here's the summer's I've experienced in Sheffield since 2018. 2018 was the best and 2020 the worst. 2018 315.6 2019 246.1 2020 221.2 2021 259.2 2022 308.4 2023 237.5 2024 261.6 Lmao get fucked sydney we're the real subtropical climate |
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 21:01:38 GMT -5
Lmao get fucked sydney we're the real subtropical climate With my personal, updated version adapted for world wide use, Sydney now gets a considerably higher score than Melbourne. Still surprised that the wiki tables Sydney has such lower sun hours than Melbourne. Melbourne, AUS 300.8 Sydney, AUS 318 Using: =10*((mean temp)+(sun hours)/67-(rain days/20)) |
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Post by jgtheone on Nov 16, 2024 21:11:35 GMT -5
Lmao get fucked sydney we're the real subtropical climate With my personal, updated version adapted for world wide use, Sydney now gets a considerably higher score than Melbourne. Still surprised that the wiki tables Sydney has such lower sun hours than Melbourne. Melbourne, AUS 300.8 Sydney, AUS 318 Using: =10*((mean temp)+(sun hours)/67-(rain days/20)) I'm choosing to ignore this as the numbers don't agree with my world view |
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Post by MET on Nov 16, 2024 21:12:15 GMT -5
With my personal, updated version adapted for world wide use, Sydney now gets a considerably higher score than Melbourne. Still surprised that the wiki tables Sydney has such lower sun hours than Melbourne. Melbourne, AUS 300.8 Sydney, AUS 318 Using: =10*((mean temp)+(sun hours)/67-(rain days/20)) I'm choosing to ignore this as the numbers don't agree with my world view Sorry  |
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Post by MET on Nov 17, 2024 9:03:27 GMT -5
I modified the original index to use mean temps instead of max, and to put less emphasis on rain days. I still think they should be included, because rainy days can disrupt outdoor activity, in lots of places summer is the time when one wants to do these more often because the winters are cold/wet/icy. I do think sun hours matter, as the sun makes me feel way hotter than if it were the same temp and cloudy.
Some examples
Cairo, Egypt 447
Alexandria, Egypt 424.7
Alice Springs, AUS 414.1
Miami, Florida 392
New Orleans 382.5
Rome, Italy 382.2
Lisbon, Portugal 370.8
Las Palmas, Spain 368.4
Dakar, Senegal 360.4
Cape Town 360
Sydney, AUS 318
Busan, South Korea 302.7
Melbourne, AUS 300.8
Durban, SA 299.3
Montreal, Canada 299
Winnipeg, Canada 295.3
Lagos, Nigeria 293.3
Gisborne NZ 290.2
Riga, Latvia 289.5
A Coruna, Spain 282.8
Auckland NZ 281.9
Nelson NZ 277.7
Eastbourne, UK 268.8
Sapporo, Japan 263.8
London UK 263.1
Irkutsk, Russia 262
Halifax, Canada 260.5
Wellington NZ 253.1
Wanaka, NZ 252.8
Christchurch NZ 251.7
Oslo, Norway 251.6
Bristol, UK 246.7
Oceanicville 245.7
York, UK 244.7
Plymouth, UK 240.2
Scilly, UK 238.5
Lincoln, UK 237
Sheffield, UK 229.3
Bergen, Norway 218.5
Wakkanai, Japan 217.4
Quillayute, USA 215.6
Dunedin NZ 213.9
Invercargill NZ 206.6
Buxton, UK 201.7
Port Hardy, Canada 201.5
Vladivostok, Russia 201.4
Reykjavik, Iceland 172.6
Prince Rupert, Canada 170.9
Ust-Kasmchatsk, Russia 168.6
Akureyri, Iceland 166.7
Narsasuaq, Greenland 163.7
Torshavn, Denmark 138.4
Iqaluit, Canada 134.1
Esperanza Base, Antarctica 60.8
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Post by divisionbyzero0 on Nov 21, 2024 21:44:47 GMT -5
Jakarta
Using SH summer (technical summer, wet season)
Max temp average DJF 31.27°C/88.28°F
DJF total sun hours 425.6
Precip days 48.2
10*(31.27 + 6.35 - 6.03) = 315.9
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