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Post by nei on Dec 3, 2017 19:34:31 GMT -5
Though this was an interesting piece of weather history. Posted it on CD last week. Reposting for those that don't check CD. And yes, my monthly minimums in Feb 2015 were only 0.6°C warmer than Leningrad's in Jan 1942. Leningrad had much colder maxes and their cold lasted most of the winter ========================================= The Russian cold in early 1942 is often credited for halting the German invasion of the Soviet Union. Was curious how cold it was really and found this paper journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0477(1989)070%3C0271:TSWIET%3E2.0.CO%3B2it appears to be a pattern of frequent blocking / upper-level lows [popularly called in recent press as the Polar Vortex]. A ridge was stuck over the eastern Atlantic, a trough over Russia. Vaguely similar to the Feb 2015 North American winter pattern of stuck western US ridge, trough and frequent "arctic blasts" over the Northeast US. Center of the cold air mass appeared to be at about Estonia. On January 25, 1942 above Kalingrad, 700 hPa temperatures were -37°C. Appears to among the few times that 850 hPa temperatures over Europe were below -28°C: Meteociel - Archives des analyses NCEP de 1871 à aujourd'huionly other time similar cold occurred over Europe since then was January 10, 1987 Meteociel - Archives des analyses NCEP de 1871 à aujourd'huithis occurs over the eastern US much more frequently, most recent example Feb 14, 2016. Happy Valentine's Day! :rolleyes: Meteociel - Archives des analyses NCEP de 1871 à aujourd'huiit has a table of morning temperatures for Moscow and Leningrad. Leningrad looks cold but not too extreme. Moscow had a week of brutal sub -30°C mornings. |
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Post by Giorbanguly on Dec 3, 2017 23:22:56 GMT -5
My grandmother survived that horrible winter. Maybe it helped stave off the Germans, but damn, it was brutal. Especially with all the supplies going to the front. I can't imagine the amount of strength, physical and mental, it took to survive through that
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 23:33:20 GMT -5
Brutal winter, but the role of the winter in defeating the Germans is often exaggerated. In truth it affected the Russian tactics and logistics as much as it did the German's. The Rasputitsa season was arguably a bigger pain in the backside for the Germans, since their equipment would routinely get trapped in the wet mud.
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Post by Nidaros on Dec 4, 2017 1:45:03 GMT -5
Brutal winter, but the role of the winter in defeating the Germans is often exaggerated. In truth it affected the Russian tactics and logistics as much as it did the German's. The Rasputitsa season was arguably a bigger pain in the backside for the Germans, since their equipment would routinely get trapped in the wet mud. Nope, it affected the Germans a little more. Not that the Russians were immune to the cold, but they had at least warm winter clothes available. The Germans did not have winter clothes when winter started (expected to win before winter), did not have the right oil on their vehicles for those temperatures and so forth. And yes, the rasputitsa certainly was bad. However, the Germans did not have resources to capture Moscow - they did the mistake of attacking at three goals (N, center, S). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 6:31:45 GMT -5
Brutal winter, but the role of the winter in defeating the Germans is often exaggerated. In truth it affected the Russian tactics and logistics as much as it did the German's. The Rasputitsa season was arguably a bigger pain in the backside for the Germans, since their equipment would routinely get trapped in the wet mud. Nope, it affected the Germans a little more. Not that the Russians were immune to the cold, but they had at least warm winter clothes available. The Germans did not have winter clothes when winter started (expected to win before winter), did not have the right oil on their vehicles for those temperatures and so forth. And yes, the rasputitsa certainly was bad. However, the Germans did not have resources to capture Moscow - they did the mistake of attacking at three goals (N, center, S). In the initial 1941/42 attack, the main German advances had run out of steam, and failed to achieve their goals, the winter had set in. In fact the start of winter actually improved German logistics after their rasputitsa nightmare, by hardening the terrrain. The Russians were also equally affected since their supply lines for men and resources were much longer. Often coming all the way from Siberia, as well as across land and sea from, their allies. The decisive German defeats, such as Stalingrad, came after the famous 1941/1942 winter. The idea that Napoleon's failed due to the winter is also a myth. His invasion had failed by October, the winter just happened to contribute to heavy attrition of troops as he was retreating. Although the Russian scorched Earth policy and frequent attacks at the rear were more damaging to Napoleon's army. |
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Post by boombo on Dec 4, 2017 6:46:31 GMT -5
Interesting how that winter is compared to the cold spell in January 1987 when the cold spread so far west even the Scilly Isles got ice days for the only (?) time in recorded history, not so in 1941/42.
That article says the day that Königsberg/Kaliningrad got down to -34C on 25 January 1942, their coldest temperature in 130 years, it was +4C in Calais on the English Channel coast of France only 1000 miles away. I wish we had those European temperature maps from meteociel available for that date, I'd love to know where the dividing line was because I've never seen a temperature contrast even nearly that big within such a small distance before.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 7:24:55 GMT -5
Interesting how that winter is compared to the cold spell in January 1987, that year the cold spread so far west even the Scilly Isles got ice days for the only (?) time in recorded history, not so in 1941/42. That article says the day that Königsberg/Kaliningrad got down to -34C on 25 January 1942, their coldest temperature in 130 years, it was +4C in Calais on the English Channel coast of France only 1000 miles away. I wish we had those European temperature maps from meteociel available for that date, I'd love to know where the dividing line was because I've never seen a temperature contrast even nearly that big within such a small distance before. Lol, I bet Hitler was wishing he could have invaded England instead. I much would have preferred to be stationed in the western fromt during that winter! Although the fact that is was quiet also makes that an obvious choice. Meanwhile other divisions were sweating in North Africa. |
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Post by Donar on Dec 4, 2017 7:35:54 GMT -5
Here is a bit more detailed 850 hPa Temp map for the morning of 25 Jan 1942. Looks like -32 °C over the Baltic Sea and Western Latvia:  |
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Post by Donar on Dec 4, 2017 7:38:27 GMT -5
My grandfather fought in the battle of Moscow and he told me it was -40 °C without appropriate clothing but he probably didn't have a accurate thermomether.
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Post by boombo on Dec 4, 2017 7:47:53 GMT -5
Here is a bit more detailed 850 hPa Temp map for the morning of 25 Jan 1942. Looks like -32 °C over the Baltic Sea and Western Latvia: Ah right, nice one. I've never seen such concentrated cold like that, usually there's a much clearer W-E split. Actually that article gives some basic surface temperature maps for the days either side of that date, 23rd January looks interesting with a massive high over Germany and temps below -20C pretty widespread. |
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Post by boombo on Dec 4, 2017 7:57:30 GMT -5
My grandfather fought in the battle of Moscow and he told me it was -40 °C without appropriate clothing but he probably didn't have a accurate thermomether. I remember my school history textbook saying that they'd measured -2C actually on a Leningrad hospital ward in 1941/42  I'm in awe at how anybody managed to survive the siege there that winter from what I've read about it, the same with the Battle of Stalingrad the next year. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 10:25:54 GMT -5
easterly gales and -26C in gothenburg that day. oskarshamn had -38.0C... most january record lows in sweden south of uppsala stems from 26-27 jan 1942.
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Post by Nidaros on Dec 4, 2017 12:09:44 GMT -5
Searched those dates in 1942 for Trondheim and a few other cities
The weather station in Trondheim was in the city then, 58 m asl.
Jan 24: 1942:: Low -13C
Jan 25: Low -23.6C
Jan 26: Low -24C!
Jan 27: Low -19C
Jan 28: Low -17.8C
Oslo (Blindern, like today):
Jan 25: low -23.7C
Jan 26: low -23.6C
Jan 27: low -20.6C
Bergen (Fredriksberg):
Jan 25: Low -13.2C
Jan 26: Low -13.5C
Jan 27: Low -13C
Røros:
Jan 25: Temp was -30C at 19:00 (no low)
Jan 26: Low -35.3C
Jan 27: Low -31.8C
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Post by nei on Jan 3, 2018 14:01:25 GMT -5
That winter had the coldest month on record for St. Petersburg. Diurnal range was tiny compared to my winter standards. Maybe it was more record breaking in other parts of Europe? This set goes back to 1881, kept going through the siege. All in °F. Top 10 coldest weeks:
# DATE MAX MIN MEAN
1987-01-13 -17.4 -27.3 -22.4
1956-02-11 -8.0 -22.1 -15.1
1940-01-21 -7.3 -21.6 -14.4
1929-02-11 -6.4 -22.1 -14.3
1950-01-11 -10.1 -17.7 -13.9
1968-01-14 -5.4 -18.7 -12.1
1979-01-02 -4.7 -18.6 -11.6
1942-01-27 -3.3 -19.0 -11.1
1892-01-27 -3.6 -18.3 -10.9
1893-01-17 -5.4 -16.4 -10.9
top 10 coldest months
# DATE MAX MIN MEAN
1942-02-04 3.3 -9.4 -3.1
1893-01-18 2.9 -9.0 -3.0
1987-01-30 3.8 -6.8 -1.5
1908-01-11 6.2 -6.5 -0.1
1968-01-29 6.1 -6.0 0.1
1966-02-11 7.8 -7.2 0.3
1940-02-11 7.4 -5.6 0.9
1941-02-08 8.1 -5.5 1.3
1893-02-27 10.0 -7.4 1.3
1979-01-07 8.0 -4.9 1.6
I downloaded Helsinki but the dataset the NCDC has only goes back to 1952 so chose St. Petersburg. These numbers look brutally cold. More impressive considering the January average is 26.6/17.6. The 1942 month was 25°F below average; our coldest was around 15°F below average.
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Post by nei on Feb 6, 2020 10:39:58 GMT -5
Brutal winter, but the role of the winter in defeating the Germans is often exaggerated. In truth it affected the Russian tactics and logistics as much as it did the German's. The Rasputitsa season was arguably a bigger pain in the backside for the Germans, since their equipment would routinely get trapped in the wet mud. Nope, it affected the Germans a little more. Not that the Russians were immune to the cold, but they had at least warm winter clothes available. The Germans did not have winter clothes when winter started (expected to win before winter), did not have the right oil on their vehicles for those temperatures and so forth. And yes, the rasputitsa certainly was bad. However, the Germans did not have resources to capture Moscow - they did the mistake of attacking at three goals (N, center, S). Didn't realize Russia has a word for mud season; assumed it was just a term unique to New England  lol Vermont has a spring bike race called rasputitsa gravel. Don't they feel tough? I'd rather not bike in mud. www.rasputitsagravel.com/wtf the German army was using horses in 1942 |
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Post by Hiromant on Feb 6, 2020 11:25:15 GMT -5
Interestingly the Estonian record low of -43,5°C was registered two years earlier on January 17, 1940. Unofficially temperatures of -50°C were measured. Birds were dropping dead out of the air, many people got frostbite and worst of all, train cars full of vodka froze solid. So two record-breakingly brutal winters only a few years apart.  This winter I'm getting excited to see any freezing at all. |
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Post by Ariete on Feb 6, 2020 23:37:03 GMT -5
Helsinki lows 24-28 January 1942
24: -28.4C
25: -28.6C
26: -27.2C
27: -23.5C
28: -24.6C
So yes, very cold, but not record cold.
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