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Post by Lommaren on Mar 25, 2018 17:39:37 GMT -5
Personally I feel Yakutsk is misbranded as a subarctic climate. It really ought to be a humid continental climate instead. The reason for that is that July averages 19.5°C means, which is a full 1.5°C warmer than a tropical winter minimum... So for me it's a major blindspot of continental classifications to disregard hot Siberian summers from a continental category. If a climate fails to reach 18°C in a month then it's cast-iron subarctic, such as Verkhoyansk for example. For the record; Yakutsk is therefore technically above the tree line with an even greater margin than London and much of Western Europe, along with San Francisco, Oakland, Seattle and Vancouver of course. There are other similar instances in the region of Greater Siberia such as Mohe County (July mean 18.4°C). So, my question is; should there be a warmest-month limitation a climate to be able to be called subarctic? Yakutsk is perfectly fine as a humid continental climate in practice. July there is pretty much a carbon copy of Winnipeg and Regina, of course plant hardiness is much more demanding than climates like that, but for me it seems plain wrong to have a climate whose summers are hotter than anything experienced in the UK and the Benelux countries and call it subarctic. Hopefully I'm not drooling here, and am on the case of something  Basically the climates that would shift classification would be limited to continental freaks like Yakutsk, Mohe and Chita, very few overall. |
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Post by alex992 on Mar 25, 2018 17:53:36 GMT -5
No. I don't see why a warm summer should exclude a subarctic climate (just like cool winters shouldn't exclude a climate from being subtropical). Subarctic climate is just a cold sub-set of the continental climate, so it doesn't necessarily have to have cool summers.
The length of the cold season should apply here, average high is already well below freezing in October and it's that way until early-mid April. November in Yakutsk is already far colder than even January in Winnipeg, or even January in Fairbanks. It wouldn't make sense to group Yakutsk with Winnipeg just because June and July are similar. August already has a much faster drop off in temps than Winnipeg, and September in Yakutsk is more like a Winnipeg October.
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Post by Lommaren on Mar 25, 2018 18:08:02 GMT -5
Maybe a separate letter category for Sakha and Lower Siberia and warm-summer hyper-boreal-continental climates then? I'm not completely comfortable with grouping Yakutsk with Tromsø and Kiruna either. Cold climates are really diverse and makes it quite tricky.
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Post by alex992 on Mar 25, 2018 19:43:48 GMT -5
Calling Tromso subarctic is misleading too. Quite clearly just a high latitude oceanic climate. There's zero continental aspects of Tromso's climate. Kiruna's climate is very ocean influenced too, though to a far less extent than Tromso.
Just because two climates have the same classification, doesn't mean they have to be exactly the same.
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Post by Cadeau on Mar 25, 2018 20:20:31 GMT -5
If there's a climate zone close to each other then similar characteristics will appear, but if you only cling to such classification, you will be misunderstood that going from one area to another will change the climate. In other words nature is like an analog, it changes continuously, but some people have an idea that it will be vastly different once they cross the zone to cut off like a digital by a graph. For example, New York and Taipei are the same Cfa group though in reality the differences are enormous in terms of temperature or precipitation patterns. The same group in Dwa, Seoul and Beijing, are similar in temperature but differ in other factors. In Seoul, the precipitation is much higher than in Beijing in summer and the sunshine is the lowest in summer. Much fewer sunshine hours overall. In my opinion, climate classification should be taken as a rough idea. If you dig so deeply into this, you will eventually have to divide all the places on the earth by one-meter square talking extremely.
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Post by knot on Mar 26, 2018 0:40:40 GMT -5
Certainly not! The annual mean is by leagues the foremost factor that determines whether a climate is subpolar or not. This is why we have classifications like subpolar maritime (CFC), tundra (ET), and of course polar ice-cap (EF); those are the climates that require a cool summer, especially the latter.
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Post by knot on Mar 26, 2018 0:47:25 GMT -5
Maybe a separate letter category for Sakha and Lower Siberia and warm-summer hyper-boreal-continental climates then? I'm not completely comfortable with grouping Yakutsk with Tromsø and Kiruna either. Cold climates are really diverse and makes it quite tricky. Tromsø is merely subpolar maritime, bordering tundra. It may be "subarctic" by your pitiful climate standards, but certianly not by common world standards |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 4:30:19 GMT -5
lenght of summer is what separates dfb from dfc. yakutsk is solidly subarctic.
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Post by P London on Mar 26, 2018 5:16:16 GMT -5
Nope I think the grouping is fine. 3 months where temperatures above 18c but a winter season that is rock solid cold? -30c lows definitely subarctic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 6:54:52 GMT -5
Yatkusk is COLD, that warm summer is simply a flash in the pan.
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Post by Lommaren on Mar 26, 2018 8:37:45 GMT -5
Yakutsk might be a poor example, but I think for climates such as Chita, Mohe and Borzya where the fourth warmest month is above 9°C there's a much greater argument to be made. Personally I think they could all be "Hypercontinental climates" which is sort of a middle ground between subarctic and humid continental. Anyway, let's agree to disagree on Yakutsk, it really is a one of a kind freakazoid climate with no other cities just like it.
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Post by bizzy on Mar 26, 2018 9:26:52 GMT -5
I think the current definition is fine, it’s an extreme Arctic-cold dominated climate, and the warm summer doesn’t preclude them from having permafrost.
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Basically the climates that would shift classification would be limited to continental freaks like Yakutsk, Mohe and Chita, very few overall.
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