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Post by alex992 on Sept 24, 2018 19:58:18 GMT -5
This is like asking if a 30.0 C day counts as a 30+ C day. Of course it does.
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Post by AJ1013 on Sept 24, 2018 20:03:24 GMT -5
jajajaja umea maded frost on the 14th. Polar bro!
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Post by bizzy on Sept 24, 2018 22:02:06 GMT -5
Maybe, if frost develops. Some years we’ve had our first freeze before seeing any frost. Frost isn't always a guarantee.
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Post by Babu on Sept 25, 2018 2:33:45 GMT -5
This is like asking if a 30.0 C day counts as a 30+ C day. Of course it does. Not really. 0.0 doesn't have a minus mark, -0.1 does. It would make since to use <0 to determine a freeze. |
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Post by Beercules on Sept 25, 2018 2:40:00 GMT -5
Water officially freezes at 0.0C. 'Nuff said. Why is this even a discussion?  |
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Post by urania93 on Sept 25, 2018 3:30:27 GMT -5
0.0°C is the temperature at which pure water is in equilibrium between the liquid and the solid phases, at standard pressure.
In this case to me it sounds like the question is: "below which temperature you can classify it as a frost/freezing?", and the answer basically depends on the definition given by the weather agencies. If the definition is "T <= 0.0°C" it would count as a frost/freezing, while if the definition is "T < 0.0°C" it would not.
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Post by Babu on Sept 25, 2018 4:09:56 GMT -5
My argument why <0.0 makes sense:
1. Water doesn't freeze at 0.0'C. It freezes below 0.0'C, and melts above 0.0'C.
2. 0.0 is denoted without a minus sign. -0.1 is not.
3. A max temp of 20.0'C counts as a 20'C+ day. A minimum temp of 20.0'C counts as a tropical night. So why wouldn't a max temp of 0.0'C count as a 0'C+ day, and a min temp of 0.0'C count as a freeze-less night?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 4:17:50 GMT -5
a station reporting 0.0C could be anywhere from -0.049C to 0.049C for all we know. this is a rather stupid discussion. i count it as a freeze.
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Post by Lommaren on Sept 25, 2018 5:31:31 GMT -5
They (met offices) should report it as either -0.0 or 0.0 like Environment Canada do when it comes to normals, but it would have to be assumed as a frost yes.
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Post by nei on Sept 25, 2018 10:57:13 GMT -5
My argument why <0.0 makes sense: 1. Water doesn't freeze at 0.0'C. It freezes below 0.0'C, and melts above 0.0'C. 2. 0.0 is denoted without a minus sign. -0.1 is not. 3. A max temp of 20.0'C counts as a 20'C+ day. A minimum temp of 20.0'C counts as a tropical night. So why wouldn't a max temp of 0.0'C count as a 0'C+ day, and a min temp of 0.0'C count as a freeze-less night? Ignoring the language nitpick that "frost" refers to ground frost here; this is a stupid and pedantic question. I doubt a thermometer is precise enough that a 0.1°C difference in readings mean much, and there'd be slight variation locally. And as @kronan said, 0.0°C is anywhere from -0.05°C to 0.049°C. US weather observations are usually reported to the nearest °F; I call reports of 32°F a freeze. |
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Post by alex992 on Sept 25, 2018 11:25:47 GMT -5
This is like asking if a 30.0 C day counts as a 30+ C day. Of course it does. Not really. 0.0 doesn't have a minus mark, -0.1 does. It would make since to use <0 to determine a freeze. It doesn't have to have a minus mark to count as a freeze. A freeze is less than or equal to 0 C. I think you're scratching and clawing so you can say Umea hasn't had a freeze yet. |
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Post by Beercules on Sept 25, 2018 11:29:49 GMT -5
alex992 100% he's just trying to Botev Umea again. Vain effort though, not much difference between 0.0C and -0.0C lmfao
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Post by alex992 on Sept 25, 2018 11:49:11 GMT -5
alex992 100% he's just trying to Botev Umea again. Vain effort though, not much difference between 0.0C and -0.0C lmfao It's the same shit. It's like trying to claim that -40.0 C doesn't count as -40 C or below because it isn't below -40 C. It's a stupid argument. |
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Post by Babu on Sept 25, 2018 11:52:45 GMT -5
I thought so before Umeå recorded 0.0'C lol. SMHI uses <0.0 and I've used that too.
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Post by alex992 on Sept 25, 2018 11:59:22 GMT -5
Well SMHI is stupid for using that definition. 0 C is a freeze. End of discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 12:00:09 GMT -5
I don't see the point in being pedantic about this when you live in Umea. You'll be well below 0C for the next 7 months buddy, jajajaja  |
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Post by Babu on Sept 25, 2018 12:10:35 GMT -5
alex992 100% he's just trying to Botev Umea again. Vain effort though, not much difference between 0.0C and -0.0C lmfao It's the same shit. It's like trying to claim that -40.0 C doesn't count as -40 C or below because it isn't below -40 C. It's a stupid argument. I mean, according to consistency, 0.0 should count as above 0 since 20.0 counts as above 20 and 10.0 above 10... As Kronan, Urania and Nei have said, science doesn't say either is right; it's up to each agency to define it yourself and both are just as correct or wrong or reasonable. In this case, most seem to choose to define the freeze as ≤0 instead of <0. Doesn't mean <0 is stupid though as a lot of people here seem to think |
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Post by alex992 on Sept 25, 2018 12:16:05 GMT -5
It's the same shit. It's like trying to claim that -40.0 C doesn't count as -40 C or below because it isn't below -40 C. It's a stupid argument. I mean, according to consistency, 0.0 should count as above 0 since 20.0 counts as above 20 and 10.0 above 10... As Kronan, Urania and Nei have said, science doesn't say either is right; it's up to each agency to define it yourself and both are just as correct or wrong or reasonable. In this case, most seem to choose to define the freeze as ≤0 instead of <0. Doesn't mean <0 is stupid though as a lot of people here seem to think We're not talking about consistency, or laws of physics here. We're talking about weather stats. 99% of weather agencies would count 0.0 C as a freeze. Lol, 20.0 C would not count as a day above 20 C. It'll count as a 20+ C day, meaning a day at or above 20 C. 20.0 C is at 20 C, they would count it as a day at or below 20 C as well. Again, all this just comes across as a weird attempt for you to say that Umea hasn't recorded a freeze. You wouldn't have this same dilemma counting 30.0 C as a 30 C day. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 12:22:18 GMT -5
Well SMHI is stupid for using that definition. 0 C is a freeze. End of discussion. Well, you are talking about an agency that considers 20C a "tropical night". |
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Post by alex992 on Sept 25, 2018 12:23:36 GMT -5
Well SMHI is stupid for using that definition. 0 C is a freeze. End of discussion. Well, you are talking about an agency that considers 20C a "tropical night". And one that uses like 2012-2015 normals. |
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