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Post by Babu on Nov 16, 2017 13:03:29 GMT -5
Cool. Remarkably little UHI outside of the small city center. How is that map even measured though? Mr. Drebs drove around Helsinki with a mobile FMI weather station van for a year.  He didn't really do that did he? Either way, is it an annual value? In that case central Helsinki would be warmer than Malmö. |
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Post by Nidaros on Nov 16, 2017 17:02:46 GMT -5
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 16, 2017 17:08:03 GMT -5
Yes, 3 degrees according to my eyes. Are those 2°C colder than Kaisaniemi and 6°C colder than the UHI merely frost hollows or are they also elevated forests? The latter seems like a nightmare scenario during cold nights. |
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Post by Babu on Nov 16, 2017 17:08:14 GMT -5
Cool!!! I saw a pretty cool shooting star a couple of weeks ago. It covered half the sky and burnt a fiery orange, but obviously not like that one... |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 16, 2017 17:09:46 GMT -5
He didn't really do that did he? Either way, is it an annual value? In that case central Helsinki would be warmer than Malmö. It's June 2009-July 2010 so obviously two June's and two July's will skew that if that's what that graphic meant. I thought it was merely temp anomalies from Kaisaniemi, though  |
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Post by Babu on Nov 16, 2017 17:28:44 GMT -5
He didn't really do that did he? Either way, is it an annual value? In that case central Helsinki would be warmer than Malmö. It's June 2009-July 2010 so obviously two June's and two July's will skew that if that's what that graphic meant. I thought it was merely temp anomalies from Kaisaniemi, though Yeah, it's temp anomalies but a +4'C anomaly would make Helsinki warmer than Berlin. |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 16, 2017 17:32:37 GMT -5
Yeah, it's temp anomalies but a +4'C anomaly would make Helsinki warmer than Berlin. You know all about January 2010 and July 2010 though, in particular in Finland  |
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Post by Babu on Nov 17, 2017 2:25:27 GMT -5
Yeah, it's temp anomalies but a +4'C anomaly would make Helsinki warmer than Berlin. You know all about January 2010 and July 2010 though, in particular in Finland Uh, if Helsinki centre is 4'C warmer than the airport in 2010, most likely it will be 4'C warmer in 2014 as well. |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 17, 2017 4:33:54 GMT -5
Uh, if Helsinki centre is 4'C warmer than the airport in 2010, most likely it will be 4'C warmer in 2014 as well. Probably January was absolutely crazy as soon as you moved inland there and that's what made the difference. But yes, it looks a bit exaggarated. I'd lean towards 3°C that timeframe as realistic |
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Post by Ariete on Nov 17, 2017 10:08:26 GMT -5
He didn't really do that did he? Either way, is it an annual value? In that case central Helsinki would be warmer than Malmö. He sure did. He squared an area with GPS and drove from point to point. And that shows the importance of placing the weather station. Mostly forested parks. Here's the long narrow strip in the centre of the map: goo.gl/maps/sxRMhj5e7662No, it's July 2009 - June 2010, so only one June and July. "Along the measurement route, 336 fixed points were established, and the monthly air temperature differences to Kaisaniemi were calculated to produce monthly and annual maps. The monthly air temperature differences were interpolated 21.1 km by 18.1 km horizontal grid with 100 metre resolution residual kriging method. The following independent variables for the kriging interpolation method were used: topographical height, portion of sea area, portion of trees, fraction of built-up and not built-up area, volumes of buildings, and population density." Yes, so Kaisaniemi has a value of 0C. Haltiala (Tomtebacka) is -2 value from Kaisaniemi, Erottaja (Skillnaden, The Separator) is +4 value from Kaisaniemi. |
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Post by Babu on Nov 17, 2017 11:06:51 GMT -5
He didn't really do that did he? Either way, is it an annual value? In that case central Helsinki would be warmer than Malmö. He sure did. He squared an area with GPS and drove from point to point. And that shows the importance of placing the weather station. Mostly forested parks. Here's the long narrow strip in the centre of the map: goo.gl/maps/sxRMhj5e7662No, it's July 2009 - June 2010, so only one June and July. "Along the measurement route, 336 fixed points were established, and the monthly air temperature differences to Kaisaniemi were calculated to produce monthly and annual maps. The monthly air temperature differences were interpolated 21.1 km by 18.1 km horizontal grid with 100 metre resolution residual kriging method. The following independent variables for the kriging interpolation method were used: topographical height, portion of sea area, portion of trees, fraction of built-up and not built-up area, volumes of buildings, and population density." Yes, so Kaisaniemi has a value of 0C. Haltiala (Tomtebacka) is -2 value from Kaisaniemi, Erottaja (Skillnaden, The Separator) is +4 value from Kaisaniemi. One year is definitely too little for this I think. And did he do it every day? I mean, from the time that you get from one area to the other the temperature throughout the city will have changed. A a trip like that would take like 4 hours during which the temperature will have changed, and one year is way too little to accurately distinguish place changing from time changing. And also did he do it nights as well as days equally? It seems reallt farfetched to get an accurate reading this way. |
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Post by Ariete on Nov 17, 2017 11:16:11 GMT -5
He drove around every Tuesday taking measurements in those 336 points.
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Post by Donar on Nov 17, 2017 11:41:06 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 11:44:39 GMT -5
You could base an entire thread around that question.  |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 22, 2017 10:34:26 GMT -5
Norrköping averages 6.5 days a year above 30'C. Source? Seems exaggarated to me  |
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Post by Babu on Nov 22, 2017 10:43:51 GMT -5
Norrköping averages 6.5 days a year above 30'C. Source? Seems exaggarated to me Infoclimat. I'm guessing the thing is there are lots of 30'C days and very few 33'C days, and during cooler summers the max would only be perhaps 28'C, but there would be lot's of 28'C days, and on warmer summers the max might be 32, but with a lot of 30'C days. www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/2002-2016/smhi/phenomenes/02574.htmlIt does seem amazingly high considering the average max is only 30'C. Although I guess 80% are like 30-32'C and then there are a few 26'C years |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 22, 2017 10:59:57 GMT -5
Infoclimat. I'm guessing the thing is there are lots of 30'C days and very few 33'C days, and during cooler summers the max would only be perhaps 28'C, but there would be lot's of 28'C days, and on warmer summers the max might be 32, but with a lot of 30'C days. www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/2002-2016/smhi/phenomenes/02574.htmlIt does seem amazingly high considering the average max is only 30'C. Although I guess 80% are like 30-32'C and then there are a few 26'C years It quite clearly belongs better in here I'll do a quick lookup 2002-2017: 2002: 29.2° 2003: 29.1° 2004: 29.5° 2005: 30.2° (2 days) 2006: 31.3° (2 days) 2007: 30.8° (2 days) 2008: 29.6° 2009: 29.9° 2010: 33.8° (5 days) 2011: 28.4° 2012: 26.9° 2013: 28.5° 2014: 32.5° (5 days) 2015: 29.5° 2016: 32.7° (4 days) 2017: 28.6° 20 days in 16 years = 1.25 days annually. Nyköping is a bit less prone than that, in 2016 we peaked at 29° something, but on the other hand being more maritime, we're safer above 20°C than Norrköping is. |
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Post by Babu on Nov 22, 2017 11:06:30 GMT -5
Infoclimat. I'm guessing the thing is there are lots of 30'C days and very few 33'C days, and during cooler summers the max would only be perhaps 28'C, but there would be lot's of 28'C days, and on warmer summers the max might be 32, but with a lot of 30'C days. www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/2002-2016/smhi/phenomenes/02574.htmlIt does seem amazingly high considering the average max is only 30'C. Although I guess 80% are like 30-32'C and then there are a few 26'C years I'll do a quick lookup 2002-2016: 2002: 29.2° 2003: 29.1° 2004: 29.5° 2005: 30.2° 2006: 31.3° 2007: 30.8° 2008: 29.6° 2009: 29.9° 2010: 33.8° 2011: 28.4° 2012: 26.9° 2013: 28.5° 2014: 32.5° 2015: 29.5° 2016: 32.7° It's odd though. They say we average 2.5 days with 30'C in July only, but as I looked at their own stats, we only hit 30'C in two Julies, once in 2003 and four times in 2014. That's 5 in total for the 15 year period. I don't really know how they're counting to come up with 2.5... |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 22, 2017 11:18:22 GMT -5
It's odd though. They say we average 2.5 days with 30'C in July only, but as I looked at their own stats, we only hit 30'C in two Julies, once in 2003 and four times in 2014. That's 5 in total for the 15 year period. I don't really know how they're counting to come up with 2.5... I updated mine, had to finish it quickly since the browser got sketchy but now I have the number (1.25 days) It's them not knowing what they talk about, evidently Here's my chart of days above 25°C since 2002: 2002: 36 2003: 19 2004: 10 2005: 11 2006: 36 2007: 12 2008: 18 2009: 15 2010: 24 2011: 13 2012: 4 2013: 16 2014: 32 2015: 9 2016: 24 2017: 8 Remarkably, half (!) of those days in 2017 were set in May... 16-year average: 17.93 days above 25°C. Rather solid for a coastal 58°N climate still. I'd expect Nyköping to be low 17-something. If we look 22°C days we'll start to edge ahead I think. |
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Post by Babu on Nov 22, 2017 11:54:29 GMT -5
It's odd though. They say we average 2.5 days with 30'C in July only, but as I looked at their own stats, we only hit 30'C in two Julies, once in 2003 and four times in 2014. That's 5 in total for the 15 year period. I don't really know how they're counting to come up with 2.5... I updated mine, had to finish it quickly since the browser got sketchy but now I have the number (1.25 days) It's them not knowing what they talk about, evidently Here's my chart of days above 25°C since 2002: 2002: 36 2003: 19 2004: 10 2005: 11 2006: 36 2007: 12 2008: 18 2009: 15 2010: 24 2011: 13 2012: 4 2013: 16 2014: 32 2015: 9 2016: 24 2017: 8 Remarkably, half (!) of those days in 2017 were set in May... 16-year average: 17.93 days above 25°C. Rather solid for a coastal 58°N climate still. I'd expect Nyköping to be low 17-something. If we look 22°C days we'll start to edge ahead I think. Yet infoclimat says you're in the 20's for 25'C. Infoclimat is very accurate for averages but their occurence averages are just so strangely off even when they have the correct data |
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