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Post by trolik on Jan 25, 2020 10:40:06 GMT -5
Scandinavia is, indeed, climatically diverse: ranges from cool oceanic and cool continental in Southern Scandinavia; to subpolar oceanic and subarctic in Central Scandinavia; to tundra and polar ice-cap in Northern Scandinavia and/or atop greater altitudes. Just many different flavours of cold climate, really.^Which kinda doesn't make it diverse to me? I mean, yeah, Scandinavia is sort of diverse as the Koppen definitions go. But its 'climates' are overall similar in a way that they are all on the cool end of the spectrum. Of course, there can a 35C+ degree difference between the coast and the northern inland regions. But this could mean that it's -30C in the north and -3C on the coast. Tremendous difference, but still freezing. That's as "diverse" as as a country having tropical Savannah, tropical rainforest, tropical monsoon and the warm end of humid subtropical (Tampa/Brisbane). All are on the warm end of things. I don't think people would call such country "climatically diverse", don't you think? somewhere like ecuador probably has the most diverse climate types in comparison to its size |
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Post by Nidaros on Jan 25, 2020 11:59:48 GMT -5
Which kinda doesn't make it diverse to me? I mean, yeah, Scandinavia is sort of diverse as the Koppen definitions go. But its 'climates' are overall similar in a way that they are all on the cool end of the spectrum. Of course, there can a 35C+ degree difference between the coast and the northern inland regions. But this could mean that it's -30C in the north and -3C on the coast. Tremendous difference, but still freezing.I think Ethereals answer nicely illustrates what is the common view about Scandinavia. I recently wrote about a specific hour when it was 42C difference within one region of Norway, Northern Norway: From +6C (Brønnøysund) to -36C (Pasvik). All in the north. And not all freezing. Even on the coldest days, when it actually is approaching -45C to -50C in the coldest inland areas of the north, it is often above freezing along the coast of the SW. Such a temperature range is unheard of for instance UK. The averages are above freezing all winter along the SW coast, such as Stavanger, Sandnes, Bergen, Haugesund, Florø, Ålesund, Kristiansund etc. Coldest month in Bergen averages mean 2.2C and avg high 4.3C, and that is with 1981-2010. When 1991-2020 normals are here, it will be warmer. Just look at 2019 - Stavanger's coldest low was -3.9C which is warmer than Seattle (-7C), Sheffield (-5.2C) and London-Heathrow (-5.2C). And no, Stavanger isn't the place with the mildest winters in Scandinavia- that would be some island. At the same time, coldest month in the coldest areas has mean ~-15C and avg high ~-11C using same period. That's just temperature. Precipitation varies enormously. From annual precip ~2500-6000 mm (Ålfotbreen/-glacier almost 6000 mm) where the mountains in the SW meets the lows from the Atlantic, to 278 mm annually only a few hours drive away in the driest valleys. The precipitation pattern also varies, from the inland areas with peak in the warm months of summer to the coastal areas with peak in autumn or winter. |
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Post by trolik on Jan 25, 2020 12:40:33 GMT -5
Which kinda doesn't make it diverse to me? I mean, yeah, Scandinavia is sort of diverse as the Koppen definitions go. But its 'climates' are overall similar in a way that they are all on the cool end of the spectrum. Of course, there can a 35C+ degree difference between the coast and the northern inland regions. But this could mean that it's -30C in the north and -3C on the coast. Tremendous difference, but still freezing.I think Ethereals answer nicely illustrates what is the common view about Scandinavia. I recently wrote about a specific hour when it was 42C difference within one region of Norway, Northern Norway: From +6C (Brønnøysund) to -36C (Pasvik). All in the north. And not all freezing. Even on the coldest days, when it actually is approaching -45C to -50C in the coldest inland areas of the north, it is often above freezing along the coast of the SW. Such a temperature range is unheard of for instance UK. The averages are above freezing all winter along the SW coast, such as Stavanger, Sandnes, Bergen, Haugesund, Florø, Ålesund, Kristiansund etc. Coldest month in Bergen averages mean 2.2C and avg high 4.3C, and that is with 1981-2010. When 1991-2020 normals are here, it will be warmer. Just look at 2019 - Stavanger's coldest low was -3.9C which is warmer than Seattle (-7C), Sheffield (-5.2C) and London-Heathrow (-5.2C). And no, Stavanger isn't the place with the mildest winters in Scandinavia- that would be some island. At the same time, coldest month in the coldest areas has mean ~-15C and avg high ~-11C using same period. That's just temperature. Precipitation varies enormously. From annual precip ~2500-6000 mm (Ålfotbreen/-glacier almost 6000 mm) where the mountains in the SW meets the lows from the Atlantic, to 278 mm annually only a few hours drive away in the driest valleys. The precipitation pattern also varies, from the inland areas with peak in the warm months of summer to the coastal areas with peak in autumn or winter. Yeah theres diversity but like ethereal said its all just shades of cold. New York state has more diversity. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 12:48:29 GMT -5
"If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes"
"High temperatures cause tanning"
"Oceanic climates are terrible for growing fruit and vegetables"
"It's 100F with 100% humidity"
"Wisley is a UHI"
"Reverse west windflow"
"Gole is colder than Ardahan"
"Humid cold feels colder than dry cold"
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Post by Nidaros on Jan 25, 2020 13:19:50 GMT -5
I think Ethereals answer nicely illustrates what is the common view about Scandinavia. I recently wrote about a specific hour when it was 42C difference within one region of Norway, Northern Norway: From +6C (Brønnøysund) to -36C (Pasvik). All in the north. And not all freezing. Even on the coldest days, when it actually is approaching -45C to -50C in the coldest inland areas of the north, it is often above freezing along the coast of the SW. Such a temperature range is unheard of for instance UK. The averages are above freezing all winter along the SW coast, such as Stavanger, Sandnes, Bergen, Haugesund, Florø, Ålesund, Kristiansund etc. Coldest month in Bergen averages mean 2.2C and avg high 4.3C, and that is with 1981-2010. When 1991-2020 normals are here, it will be warmer. Just look at 2019 - Stavanger's coldest low was -3.9C which is warmer than Seattle (-7C), Sheffield (-5.2C) and London-Heathrow (-5.2C). And no, Stavanger isn't the place with the mildest winters in Scandinavia- that would be some island. At the same time, coldest month in the coldest areas has mean ~-15C and avg high ~-11C using same period. That's just temperature. Precipitation varies enormously. From annual precip ~2500-6000 mm (Ålfotbreen/-glacier almost 6000 mm) where the mountains in the SW meets the lows from the Atlantic, to 278 mm annually only a few hours drive away in the driest valleys. The precipitation pattern also varies, from the inland areas with peak in the warm months of summer to the coastal areas with peak in autumn or winter. Yeah theres diversity but like ethereal said its all just shades of cold. New York state has more diversity. What is "cold" is certainly subjective (like ask Shalop or Hiromant).
According to Wiki, New York's annual temperature ranges from 4C in the Adirondack mts to about 12C on Long island. So Scandinavia has larger temperature range - even in the lowland areas without using mountains. It also says that max annual precipitation is 1,500 mm, so Scandinavia beats the precip range many times over.
New York state has impressive temperature extremes, from -47C (Stillwater resevoir) to 42C, a range pretty similar to Scandinavia extremes.
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Post by trolik on Jan 25, 2020 13:42:36 GMT -5
Yeah theres diversity but like ethereal said its all just shades of cold. New York state has more diversity. What is "cold" is certainly subjective (like ask Shalop or Hiromant).
According to Wiki, New York's annual temperature ranges from 4C in the Adirondack mts to about 12C on Long island. So Scandinavia has larger temperature range - even in the lowland areas without using mountains. It also says that max annual precipitation is 1,500 mm, so Scandinavia beats the precip range many times over.
New York state has impressive temperature extremes, from -47C (Stillwater resevoir) to 42C, a range pretty similar to Scandinavia extremes.
After looking more at it, i believe they have the same level of diversity. In New York you have cfb to cfa to dfa to dfb, in scandinavia its cfb to dfb to dfc to et |
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Post by Nidaros on Jan 25, 2020 14:10:32 GMT -5
What is "cold" is certainly subjective (like ask Shalop or Hiromant).
According to Wiki, New York's annual temperature ranges from 4C in the Adirondack mts to about 12C on Long island. So Scandinavia has larger temperature range - even in the lowland areas without using mountains. It also says that max annual precipitation is 1,500 mm, so Scandinavia beats the precip range many times over.
New York state has impressive temperature extremes, from -47C (Stillwater resevoir) to 42C, a range pretty similar to Scandinavia extremes.
After looking more at it, i believe they have the same level of diversity. In New York you have cfb to cfa to dfa to dfb, in scandinavia its cfb to dfb to dfc to et Scandinavia also has Cfc like on parts of Lofoten, Myken etc. There are alpine tundra on mountains and Arctic tundra (Vardø etc). If Svalbard were to be included, we would also have Ice cap climate Ef.
Will be interesting to see if we get any Csc or Csb when the next normals are complete (1991-2020). |
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Post by trolik on Jan 25, 2020 14:16:29 GMT -5
After looking more at it, i believe they have the same level of diversity. In New York you have cfb to cfa to dfa to dfb, in scandinavia its cfb to dfb to dfc to et Scandinavia also has Cfc like on parts of Lofoten, Myken etc. There are alpine tundra on mountains and Arctic tundra (Vardø etc). If Svalbard were to be included, we would also have Ice cap climate Ef.
Will be interesting to see if we get any Csc or Csb when the next normals are complete (1991-2020). I wouldn't count svalbard because its so far away from the mainland but yeah it is cfc in the other islands so i guess it is more climatically diverse, my bad! The most diverse country for its size , if we exclude far away islands, is Japan I'd imagine. I've heard people say that its NZ but if we include the likes of Lofoten and Myken than Scandinavia is more climatically diverse than that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 14:39:27 GMT -5
People who say that: "It's 90 degrees with 90% humidity" "Deserts are blazing hot in daytime and freezing at night" "Hurricanes are becoming more frequent because of global warming" "You can always put on more clothes" "Seasons are getting later and later" "It's too cold to snow" "Try living in <insert place> that has 110°F for months on end!" "OMG there is a heat wave, so it must be global warming!" and vice versa Nice summary of the worst offenders. Just reading this post made my blood boil. I want to slap the people who come up with that desert nonsense in the face. Stupid shit. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 14:40:43 GMT -5
Oh and let's not forget about the classic "being cold gives you the cold/flu" nonsense.
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Post by Dean York (Old) on Jan 25, 2020 15:20:20 GMT -5
Which kinda doesn't make it diverse to me? I mean, yeah, Scandinavia is sort of diverse as the Koppen definitions go. But its 'climates' are overall similar in a way that they are all on the cool end of the spectrum. Of course, there can a 35C+ degree difference between the coast and the northern inland regions. But this could mean that it's -30C in the north and -3C on the coast. Tremendous difference, but still freezing.I think Ethereals answer nicely illustrates what is the common view about Scandinavia. I recently wrote about a specific hour when it was 42C difference within one region of Norway, Northern Norway: From +6C (Brønnøysund) to -36C (Pasvik). All in the north. And not all freezing. Even on the coldest days, when it actually is approaching -45C to -50C in the coldest inland areas of the north, it is often above freezing along the coast of the SW. Such a temperature range is unheard of for instance UK. The averages are above freezing all winter along the SW coast, such as Stavanger, Sandnes, Bergen, Haugesund, Florø, Ålesund, Kristiansund etc. Coldest month in Bergen averages mean 2.2C and avg high 4.3C, and that is with 1981-2010. When 1991-2020 normals are here, it will be warmer. Just look at 2019 - Stavanger's coldest low was -3.9C which is warmer than Seattle (-7C), Sheffield (-5.2C) and London-Heathrow (-5.2C). And no, Stavanger isn't the place with the mildest winters in Scandinavia- that would be some island. At the same time, coldest month in the coldest areas has mean ~-15C and avg high ~-11C using same period. That's just temperature. Precipitation varies enormously. From annual precip ~2500-6000 mm (Ålfotbreen/-glacier almost 6000 mm) where the mountains in the SW meets the lows from the Atlantic, to 278 mm annually only a few hours drive away in the driest valleys. The precipitation pattern also varies, from the inland areas with peak in the warm months of summer to the coastal areas with peak in autumn or winter. It's just different versions of shit weather really. Ranging from cold, to very cold. It's interesting though, even if none of them are my preference. |
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Post by Steelernation on Jan 25, 2020 15:23:07 GMT -5
New York state has more diversity. Lmao |
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Post by Ethereal on Jan 25, 2020 22:25:19 GMT -5
^I think he means blazing heat and freezing cold during the same day, so different seasons don't count. In pop culture for some reason there's this idea that a desert can somehow manage 40C and 0C in the same 24-hour period which I'm pretty sure is impossible on Earth (afaik).
The only thing I might slightly disagree with in ben's post though, is the idea that you can't always put on more clothes. I mean, on Youtube, there's a video of a guy camping outside for 8 hours at -75C (-103F) in Antarctica (see spoiler). That basically indicates that there are clothes available for almost every temp found on the planet. However, it is true that most people don't have sufficient gear for temps below 0F (-18C) or so, and that it's kind of hard to find. Nah, I am aware of all that. I did state that the difference between the warmish winter days and (near) freezing nights may have 'inspired' the idea that deserts are 40C in the day and 0C during nighttime. Only that, with the warm winter days, they had the blazing hot summer days in mind. |
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Post by srfoskey on Jan 26, 2020 2:24:56 GMT -5
I think Ethereals answer nicely illustrates what is the common view about Scandinavia. I recently wrote about a specific hour when it was 42C difference within one region of Norway, Northern Norway: From +6C (Brønnøysund) to -36C (Pasvik). All in the north. And not all freezing. Even on the coldest days, when it actually is approaching -45C to -50C in the coldest inland areas of the north, it is often above freezing along the coast of the SW. Such a temperature range is unheard of for instance UK. The averages are above freezing all winter along the SW coast, such as Stavanger, Sandnes, Bergen, Haugesund, Florø, Ålesund, Kristiansund etc. Coldest month in Bergen averages mean 2.2C and avg high 4.3C, and that is with 1981-2010. When 1991-2020 normals are here, it will be warmer. Just look at 2019 - Stavanger's coldest low was -3.9C which is warmer than Seattle (-7C), Sheffield (-5.2C) and London-Heathrow (-5.2C). And no, Stavanger isn't the place with the mildest winters in Scandinavia- that would be some island. At the same time, coldest month in the coldest areas has mean ~-15C and avg high ~-11C using same period. That's just temperature. Precipitation varies enormously. From annual precip ~2500-6000 mm (Ålfotbreen/-glacier almost 6000 mm) where the mountains in the SW meets the lows from the Atlantic, to 278 mm annually only a few hours drive away in the driest valleys. The precipitation pattern also varies, from the inland areas with peak in the warm months of summer to the coastal areas with peak in autumn or winter. Yeah theres diversity but like ethereal said its all just shades of cold. New York state has more diversity. I disagree, but New York is much smaller than Scandinavia. A more fair comparison would be the Northeast US vs. Scandinavia. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 9:40:59 GMT -5
Yeah theres diversity but like ethereal said its all just shades of cold. New York state has more diversity. I disagree, but New York is much smaller than Scandinavia. A more fair comparison would be the Northeast US vs. Scandinavia. When you were living in Reading, was the climate exactly how you expected it to be? |
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Post by alex992 on Jan 26, 2020 9:47:16 GMT -5
^I think he means blazing heat and freezing cold during the same day, so different seasons don't count. In pop culture for some reason there's this idea that a desert can somehow manage 40C and 0C in the same 24-hour period which I'm pretty sure is impossible on Earth (afaik).
The only thing I might slightly disagree with in ben's post though, is the idea that you can't always put on more clothes. I mean, on Youtube, there's a video of a guy camping outside for 8 hours at -75C (-103F) in Antarctica (see spoiler). That basically indicates that there are clothes available for almost every temp found on the planet. However, it is true that most people don't have sufficient gear for temps below 0F (-18C) or so, and that it's kind of hard to find. Nah, I am aware of all that. I did state that the difference between the warmish winter days and (near) freezing nights may have 'inspired' the idea that deserts are 40C in the day and 0C during nighttime. Only that, with the warm winter days, they had the blazing hot summer days in mind. Nah, you have to remember the public in general are pretty big morons. They most certainly have the exact same day in mind when they say this stupid shit. It'd pretty hard to mistake a warm winter (20-25 C) day for a 40 C blazing hot summer day. But again, people are fucking stupid so it wouldn't surprise me. |
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Post by shalop on Jan 29, 2020 18:34:14 GMT -5
In pop culture for some reason there's this idea that a desert can somehow manage 40C and 0C in the same 24-hour period which I'm pretty sure is impossible on Earth (afaik). Maybe I was wrong. On April 17, 2018, Alva OK had a day with a max/min of 101/33 F (38/1C). And I don't think it was a record. Somewhere in Oklahoma, there might've actually been a 40/0 day! It's not a desert though.
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Post by knot on Jan 29, 2020 20:47:08 GMT -5
Maybe I was wrong. On April 17, 2018, Alva OK had a day with a max/min of 101/33 F (38/1C). And I don't think it was a record. Somewhere in Oklahoma, there might've actually been a 40/0 day! It's not a desert though.
Impressive, but OK's not even close to the iconic subtropical desert i.e. straddling 23.5°-35.0° S or N. There is no subtropical desert on Earth that can manage 0° C and 40° C in a single day; the polar airmass just isn't there. In summer, many of these iconic deserts (e.g. Sahara) yield extremely warm lows in summer. |
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Post by shalop on Jan 30, 2020 11:21:37 GMT -5
^Agreed. This was merely a fun fact by itself, not something that was intended to promote a nonsensical stereotype.
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Post by srfoskey on Feb 16, 2020 1:44:44 GMT -5
I disagree, but New York is much smaller than Scandinavia. A more fair comparison would be the Northeast US vs. Scandinavia. When you were living in Reading, was the climate exactly how you expected it to be? It was drier and sunnier than I was expecting, but I think it was also drier and sunnier than normal when I was there. It seemed surprisingly cold in early May-not much warmer than February. The relative lack of seasonality was the main thing that annoyed me about the climate; for the most part I don't mind cool, cloudy weather. |
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