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Post by Steelernation on Jan 14, 2023 12:31:01 GMT -5
Interesting find and welcome to the forum! The very warm average lows are what really sticks out here
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 13:00:11 GMT -5
Windward stations on Rhodes could potentially record some fairly high dewpoints, but not Lindos probably.
Yep, Lindos being in the leeward side of Rhodes it's pretty dry heat. Basically what happens is that during the summer most of the Aegean islands are caught in the midst of a specific air circulation called the Etesian or Meltemi winds. These winds are powerful N winds that tend to dominate the Aegean non stop 24/7 between May and October. Their height is in the heart of the summer and especially during July and August. In the case of the leeward side of Rhodes as these powerful N winds cross from W to E from the Attavyros Mountain range towards the other surrounding mountains and hills they reach the leeward side of Rhodes significantly heated up. Coupled with Lindos amazing orography we are talking about a 24/7 non stop foehn effect that never seizes during the summer which leads to these stunning and extreme T's. |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 13:04:12 GMT -5
Interesting find and welcome to the forum! The very warm average lows are what really sticks out here Indeed, these are very pronounced but pay attention to the summer maxes as well. Its virtually impossible for any coastal place in Europe to register these high summer maxes. Well not only Europe. Save for the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf I doubt any other coastal areas can so casually record these summer maxes. |
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Post by psychedamike24 on Jan 14, 2023 13:13:19 GMT -5
Interesting find and welcome to the forum! The very warm average lows are what really sticks out here Indeed, these are very pronounced but pay attention to the summer maxes as well. It virtually impossible for any coastal place in Europe to register these high summer maxes. Well not only Europe. Save from the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf I doubt any other coastal areas can so casually record these summer maxes. Yeah those August 2021 temperatures are insane for Europe. Only possible in the Old World for sure 
I made a fictional climate back around 2014 that was inspired by the eastern Mediterranean but also a monsoonal desert with the Southwestern US's "double rainy season" precipitation pattern. Didn't think a climate with similar average temperatures actually existed somewhere on Earth.  |
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Post by Benfxmth on Jan 14, 2023 13:16:32 GMT -5
People/tourist sites like to harp on southern Spanish climates as being the warmest in Europe, but they steal the show. In sheltered/leeward areas in Med islands at 35-40°N, average high temps in the mid-90s F or so are about as high as they get in summer.
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 13:19:05 GMT -5
Indeed, these are very pronounced but pay attention to the summer maxes as well. It virtually impossible for any coastal place in Europe to register these high summer maxes. Well not only Europe. Save from the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf I doubt any other coastal areas can so casually record these summer maxes. Yeah those August 2021 temperatures are insane for Europe. Only possible in the Old World for sure August 2021 was really extraordinary for Greece. The hottest month on record! I also did not expect Lindos will get a 33C monthly average T. It's shocking! |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 13:22:00 GMT -5
People/tourist sites like to harp on southern Spanish climates as being the warmest in Europe, but they steal the show. In sheltered/leeward areas in Med islands at 35-40°N, average high temps in the mid-90s F or so are about as high as they get in summer. Yep you don't get to see 35C+ average highs anywhere in coastal areas of Europe apart from Greece. To my knowledge only two coastal stations on the islands in Greece can do this: Rhodes with Lindos and Salamina island in metropolitan Athens. |
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Jan 14, 2023 15:04:23 GMT -5
Windward stations on Rhodes could potentially record some fairly high dewpoints, but not Lindos probably.
Yep, Lindos being in the leeward side of Rhodes it's pretty dry heat. Basically what happens is that during the summer most of the Aegean islands are caught in the midst of a specific air circulation called the Etesian or Meltemi winds. These winds are powerful N winds that tend to dominate the Aegean non stop 24/7 between May and October. Their height is in the heart of the summer and especially during July and August. In the case of the leeward side of Rhodes as these powerful N winds cross from W to E from the Attavyros Mountain range towards the other surrounding mountains and hills they reach the leeward side of Rhodes significantly heated up. Coupled with Lindos amazing orography we are talking about a 24/7 non stop foehn effect that never seizes during the summer which leads to these stunning and extreme T's. Those Etesian winds also descend from the Balkan mountains, giving most of mainland Greece a general föhn effect during the summer. |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 15:18:56 GMT -5
Yep, Lindos being in the leeward side of Rhodes it's pretty dry heat. Basically what happens is that during the summer most of the Aegean islands are caught in the midst of a specific air circulation called the Etesian or Meltemi winds. These winds are powerful N winds that tend to dominate the Aegean non stop 24/7 between May and October. Their height is in the heart of the summer and especially during July and August. In the case of the leeward side of Rhodes as these powerful N winds cross from W to E from the Attavyros Mountain range towards the other surrounding mountains and hills they reach the leeward side of Rhodes significantly heated up. Coupled with Lindos amazing orography we are talking about a 24/7 non stop foehn effect that never seizes during the summer which leads to these stunning and extreme T's. Those Etesian winds also descend from the Balkan mountains, giving most of mainland Greece a general föhn effect during the summer. Exactly! Areas prone to fohn winds are widespread in Greece, especially places with complex orography. Back in 2007 Greece had a series of brutal heatwaves. It's a pity Lindos station was not around during that period. I wonder what it would register... |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 15:35:14 GMT -5
July 2017 was also crazy hot for Lindos!  |
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Post by Steelernation on Jan 14, 2023 16:51:53 GMT -5
July 2017 was also crazy hot for Lindos! Where did you get data for individual months like that? |
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Post by tommyFL on Jan 14, 2023 16:58:53 GMT -5
July 2017 was also crazy hot for Lindos! Where did you get data for individual months like that? Need to create an account to access monthly data meteosearch.meteo.grThat's also where you find out this station is located on a rooftop.  |
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Post by greysrigging on Jan 14, 2023 17:11:53 GMT -5
Interesting find and welcome to the forum! The very warm average lows are what really sticks out here Indeed, these are very pronounced but pay attention to the summer maxes as well. Its virtually impossible for any coastal place in Europe to register these high summer maxes. Well not only Europe. Save for the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf I doubt any other coastal areas can so casually record these summer maxes. Anywhere basically in southern AU experiences coastal extremes with hot air from the inland deserts making it to the coast. The AWS here is right on the coast at 3m asl   |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 17:23:35 GMT -5
Where did you get data for individual months like that? Need to create an account to access monthly data meteosearch.meteo.grThat's also where you find out this station is located on a rooftop. Yep, the only problem is that you get only 30 downloads per day Also the fan aspiration of the Davis stations is specifically for urban environments rooftops included effectively canceling out any t bias. check my previous post on the peer reviewed article on the NOA stations. Only in passive non fan aspirated stations (like most WMO stations are) urban biases (buildings, rooftops, nearby streets etc) are a problem. 24 hour fan aspiration is the golden standard when we conduct met research in urban environments and that's why the National Observatory of Athens prefers them. Davis stations are probably the most accurate met stations in the world |
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Post by tommyFL on Jan 14, 2023 17:28:17 GMT -5
Need to create an account to access monthly data meteosearch.meteo.grThat's also where you find out this station is located on a rooftop. Yep, the only problem is that you get only 30 downloads per day Also the fan aspiration of the Davis stations is specifically for urban environments rooftops included effectively canceling out any t bias. check my previous post on the peer reviewed article on the NOA stations. Only in passive non fan aspirated stations (like most WMO stations are) urban biases (buildings, rooftops, nearby streets etc) are a problem. 24 hour fan aspiration is the golden standard when we conduct met research in urban environments and that's why the National Observatory of Athens prefers them. Davis stations are probably the most accurate met stations in the world Mechanical aspiration doesn't counteract the fact that rooftops are significantly warmer than the ground at night. It may make some difference during the day, but the average min temps for this station are warmer than they would be for a properly sited station. |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 17:28:39 GMT -5
Indeed, these are very pronounced but pay attention to the summer maxes as well. Its virtually impossible for any coastal place in Europe to register these high summer maxes. Well not only Europe. Save for the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf I doubt any other coastal areas can so casually record these summer maxes. Anywhere basically in southern AU experiences coastal extremes with hot air from the inland deserts making it to the coast. The AWS here is right on the coast at 3m asl My point is that few coastal areas in the world have monthly average highs over 35C. Obviously when there are heat waves anywhere in the world, crazy Ts can happen in coastal areas, but these are brief hot spells. Maintaining T over 35C in coastal areas is only possible in very few areas in the world. |
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 17:33:03 GMT -5
Yep, the only problem is that you get only 30 downloads per day Also the fan aspiration of the Davis stations is specifically for urban environments rooftops included effectively canceling out any t bias. check my previous post on the peer reviewed article on the NOA stations. Only in passive non fan aspirated stations (like most WMO stations are) urban biases (buildings, rooftops, nearby streets etc) are a problem. 24 hour fan aspiration is the golden standard when we conduct met research in urban environments and that's why the National Observatory of Athens prefers them. Davis stations are probably the most accurate met stations in the world Mechanical aspiration doesn't counteract the fact that rooftops are significantly warmer than the ground at night. Which is why the mechanical aspiration helps significantly to counter that effect in urban environments. The paper I provided earlier shows the very good maintenance and quality control done by NOA. They are very meticulous and in fact have calculated in that paper the biases in their stations at urban environments and are almost non existent. Read the paper! Its an interesting read! |
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Post by Benfxmth on Jan 14, 2023 17:33:21 GMT -5
In my experience, rooftop sites' daytime temps aren't much different from what would be placed close to the ground (provided the surface isn't a dark color), though due to thermal inversions, like Tommy mentioned earlier, a rooftop site would generally be a few °F warmer at night, so not really representative of a station placed close to the ground.
That being said, I'll take your word on it for being the warmest place in Europe, summer average highs in the mid-90s right at the coast, even for a short POR is impressive
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Post by greysrigging on Jan 14, 2023 17:36:48 GMT -5
Oh, a great slice of coastal Western Australia does ( admittedly north of the Tropic of Capricorn ).
35c av max at Lindos latitude is impressive....shame there's not a longer data set....
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Post by southathens on Jan 14, 2023 17:40:49 GMT -5
Oh, a great slice of coastal Western Australia does ( admittedly north of the Tropic of Capricorn ). 35c av max at Lindos latitude is impressive....shame there's not a longer data set.... Really? I had no idea! I thought only the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf could routinely do that! Which stations exactly? I would love to see these stats! |
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