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Post by Babu on Nov 14, 2017 12:38:37 GMT -5
I think living there from April-October would make you think again. It's gonna be green lawns for like 90% of the days in winter with reasonably mild days and strong sun, and then it's gonna feel properly tropical in the summer, and you're gonna have warm to hot temps even in November. The 25'C agg threshold makes Nelson and Blenheim, as well as NYC the border. I guess you could change the coldest mean to your liking without upsetting the formula though. It does seem to make Portland subtropical though. It doesn't really take into account whether the summer plateaus or peaks short like they do in SoCal vs PNW. Perhaps adding the temps of April and October would solve the issue. Portland for me is subtropical. Being 21°C in summer and 5°C in winter is enough for myself on my gradient scale  Having said that, I only now fully grasped what you meant by your system. It's not that bad I guess but you have Turpan as a major case point issue right there. January: -7.6°C July: 32.2°C -7.6 + 32.2 = 25.6° Now that's a major issue, because surely Turpan is not a subtropical climate? But I assume you disqualify any climate beneath 0°C in winter, because NYC Central Park is like 0.5°C something isn't it?  Yeah, like I said in the first message, another requirement was a minimum mean above 0'C, and that could be tweaked however you see fit. I could grant Portland either qualification, but the general opinion doesn't seem to be that Portland is subtropical. The second derivative is still positive in April/May though and negative in September, making the summer peak very abruptly compared to other places with similar means in July and January. |
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Post by Lommaren on Nov 14, 2017 12:39:55 GMT -5
For me, Portland is subtropical wheras Eugene and Salem bizarrely aren't even though they're to the south. That's how much the river delta means during summer nights!
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Post by longaotian on Nov 14, 2017 13:39:41 GMT -5
What do you think of coldest mean + warmest mean >25'C for a Cfa climate? With the minimum mean being above 0'C of course Tbh, I think it should be >30C. Using 25C means it can get away with quite cold winters if the summer are hot enough to compensate. Winters too cold to be a Subtropical climate. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 13:40:40 GMT -5
Washington maded subtropical according to my buddy Wavehunter.
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Post by longaotian on Nov 14, 2017 13:40:49 GMT -5
I see the term subtropical, as being related to the environment. It best describes ecosystems where plant growth stays above a certain level, and animal and insect activity stays above a certain level. But don't you think climate has quite a big affect on this? |
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Post by longaotian on Nov 14, 2017 13:43:52 GMT -5
As for DC, it's not Subtropical imo. Only 5 months of the year have warm lows, with the other 7 being cool to cold and that's the majority. With a mean minimum of -12.3C every year, that's likely to kill most subtropical vegetation anyways.
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Post by alex992 on Nov 14, 2017 13:45:07 GMT -5
What do you think of coldest mean + warmest mean >25'C for a Cfa climate? With the minimum mean being above 0'C of course Tbh, I think it should be >30C. Using 25C means it can get away with quite cold winters if the summer are hot enough to compensate. Winters too cold to be a Subtropical climate. The summers more than make up for the winters IMO. DC summers are tropical-like through and through while their winters are not continental-like at all. DC is clearly a warmth-dominated climate to me. |
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Post by alex992 on Nov 14, 2017 13:52:46 GMT -5
As for DC, it's not Subtropical imo. Only 5 months of the year have warm lows, with the other 7 being cool to cold and that's the majority. With a mean minimum of -12.3C every year, that's likely to kill most subtropical vegetation anyways. DC has average highs above 20 C for nearly half the year (late April through mid October) and has average highs of 24 C or above for more than a third of the year, which peaks at 31-32 C in July. Sure, the nights can be cool in April and October but I don't think that should eliminate it from being subtropical. Also a mean minimum of -12.3 C is actually warmer than a lot of inland upper South cities like Nashville and is on par with Memphis. The fact it gets cold snaps shouldn't disqualify it either, subtropical places can get continental-like air masses from time to time too. Also not to mention, DC has plenty of subtropical vegetation. Has quite a few Southern Magnolias around, lots of southern variety oak trees, there's even some hardier palm trees around, etc. Subtropical vegetation isn't always palm trees. DC's vegetation doesn't look that different from Charlotte, NC or Atlanta, GA tbh. |
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Post by Babu on Nov 14, 2017 14:13:05 GMT -5
What do you think of coldest mean + warmest mean >25'C for a Cfa climate? With the minimum mean being above 0'C of course Tbh, I think it should be >30C. Using 25C means it can get away with quite cold winters if the summer are hot enough to compensate. Winters too cold to be a Subtropical climate. I already stated that the coldest month must be above 0'C to qualify and that you're free to raise the qualifying coldest month. I think Nelson is subtropical, don't you? And if insects in winter is the prerequisite for a subtropical climate then Eureka is a perfectly subtropical climate don't you think? For a 0'C winter the summer would have to be 25'C. I think that would compensate. And if the winters are 5'C, the summers only need to be 20'C. The addition of April and October for an aggregate 50'C mean, is pretty good as well I think. Rochelle and Nantes are subtropical as well as Nelson, but Portland isn't because of the cool shoulder seasons, and neither is Eureka. NYC gets right above the threshold as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 14:41:46 GMT -5
Yes DC is subtropical without a single doubt in my mind. NYC is the tricky spot for me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 14:50:33 GMT -5
DC subtropique magnifique. does still d.c can't make handsome thunder ?? does can dallas have her dewpoint sub-trophique ?? |
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Post by jgtheone on Nov 14, 2017 14:59:27 GMT -5
does bruno mars is gay?
also yes I think everything south of NYC close to the coast does I believe
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Post by alex992 on Nov 14, 2017 15:12:14 GMT -5
Cool/mild winters with hot summers = subtropical
Very Cold/Cold winters with warm/hot summers = continental
As simple as that. DC fits the first description more than the second one.
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Post by Steelernation on Nov 14, 2017 15:26:54 GMT -5
Yes. NYC is borderline, DC is firmly subtropical. Erie, PA is not subtropical. Rochester isn’t close to subtropical.
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Post by Babu on Nov 15, 2017 15:26:53 GMT -5
Cool/mild winters with hot summers = subtropicalVery Cold/Cold winters with warm/hot summers = continental As simple as that. DC fits the first description more than the second one. Mild for 8 or more months of the year also = subtropical. Washington DC doesn't qualify as subtropical under Trewartha, which is surprising. Well, I mean, they do if you don't make it calendar months |
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Post by Babu on Nov 16, 2017 13:21:26 GMT -5
Well, I mean, they do if you don't make it calendar months Washington DC falls short, with only 7 months above 10C. 7 calendar months, sure, but it's more than 8 months from the beginning of the 10'C period to the end. Since April is far above 10'C and November only just below 10'C, if you'd just make it so that the first of April was two weeks earlier, April would still manage 10'C, and November would as well. That's an odd thing about having calendar months as a requirement for classifications. Some climates get aligned with the calendar months better than others. Umeå for example only just manages four calendar months of means above 10'C, even though it has 3.5 consecutive months above 10'C because it's not aligned properly. |
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Post by alex992 on Nov 16, 2017 13:22:18 GMT -5
March averages 8.2 C in DC and April averages 13.8 C, November has an average of 9.7 C in DC. One could say the average mean is above 10 C in DC from about March 25 until November 13 or so, that's close enough to 8 months.
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Post by alex992 on Nov 16, 2017 13:26:28 GMT -5
Washington DC falls short, with only 7 months above 10C. 7 calendar months, sure, but it's more than 8 months from the beginning of the 10'C period to the end. Since April is far above 10'C and November only just below 10'C, if you'd just make it so that the first of April was two weeks earlier, April would still manage 10'C, and November would as well. That's an odd thing about having calendar months as a requirement for classifications. Some climates get aligned with the calendar months better than others. Umeå for example only just manages four calendar months of means above 10'C, even though it has 3.5 consecutive months above 10'C because it's not aligned properly. Yeah it's a bit misguided to use calendar months. By extrapolating data, one could assume the end of March and beginning of April has average means of about 11 C consider March is 8.2 C and April is 13.8 C. It's not like March 31 and March 16 have the same average temperature. Also October has an average temp of 15.3 C and November is at 9.7 C, the mean temp drops below 10 C probably around November 13/14 or so. The average temp on a monthly scale are almost always equivalent to what the averages are in the middle of the month, with the beginning of the month being colder than the monthly average and the end being warmer (if it's spring) and vice versa during autumn. |
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Post by Babu on Nov 16, 2017 13:26:59 GMT -5
March averages 8.2 C in DC and April averages 13.8 C, November has an average of 9.7 C in DC. One could say the average mean is above 10 C in DC from about March 25 until November 13 or so, that's close enough to 8 months. Technically, mid-April to mid-November would make 8 months (since it would make both months 10'C as a whole). Thus, as Washington manages say March 25 to November 13, that's 8.5 months. So Washington isn't "practically 8 months", it is above 8 months, it's just that the months align poorly with the calendar. |
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Post by alex992 on Nov 16, 2017 13:35:29 GMT -5
March averages 8.2 C in DC and April averages 13.8 C, November has an average of 9.7 C in DC. One could say the average mean is above 10 C in DC from about March 25 until November 13 or so, that's close enough to 8 months. Technically, mid-April to mid-November would make 8 months (since it would make both months 10'C as a whole). Thus, as Washington manages say March 25 to November 13, that's 8.5 months. So Washington isn't "practically 8 months", it is above 8 months, it's just that the months align poorly with the calendar. That's why using whole calendar months is a bit dumb, because mid-April through mid-November in terms of pure time is 7 months, not 8. Just like November 13 is less than 8 months away from March 25, since November 25 would be exactly 8 months away. It should be based on individual dates. |
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