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Post by Ethereal on Aug 12, 2023 21:48:41 GMT -5
We were having a debate about where we can draw the subtropical/temperate boundary in southeast Australia at City Data. According to the Bureau of Meteorology, the subtropical zone begins at Coffs Harbour in the northern NSW coast. Though people generally disagree and say that the subtropical zone begins from the Sydney/Wollongong area. Another user went as far as saying from Narooma in the South Coast. I want to get a survey from y'all and see the general consensus here (just for curiousity's sake). So, where exactly do you place the subtropical zone in the southeast?  The cities in subject (highlighted):  |
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Post by greysrigging on Aug 12, 2023 21:53:28 GMT -5
^^ See , see ? ^^...knew it was gunna happen....lol !!  |
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Post by Ethereal on Aug 12, 2023 21:55:53 GMT -5
^^ See , see ? ^^...knew it was gunna happen....lol !! I made this thread before I read that response. Lol  Must be a telepathic thing. Hehehe Coffs Harbour to Bonville:  |
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Post by jetshnl on Aug 12, 2023 22:02:55 GMT -5
Sydney me thinks.
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Post by greysrigging on Aug 12, 2023 22:16:02 GMT -5
 Edit: changed my vote to Taree re subtropical climate.... ^^Edit of the edit: the line is about half way between Taree and Coffs... so nearer to Port Macquarie. In fact at South West Rocks, where the most southerly east coast Coconut survives withour human intervention ( apparently ) |
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Post by massiveshibe on Aug 12, 2023 22:36:37 GMT -5
I draw the line at the coldest month averaging below 10C.
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Post by paddy234 on Aug 13, 2023 1:41:28 GMT -5
I feel Koppen here manages Australia quite well in this area. In regards to Australia this map used universally suits perfectly with Australia based on it's climate zones. Look how small the Subtropical zone here already is compared to temperate where there is only 5 degrees North or South of the Tropics. Making it even smaller to only include a few degrees higher than the Tropics essentially makes it meaningless. In that case it would be better keeping it all as Temperate until the Tropics begin rather than have merely a couple of degrees difference.  |
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Post by greysrigging on Aug 13, 2023 1:50:11 GMT -5
I draw the line at the coldest month averaging below 10C. Seriously ? a place with a yearly max mean of 21.8c and a yearly mean min 10c is 'subfuckentropical ?. C'mon now... thats an annual mean of 15.9c.... they ain't growing fuck all subtropical plants there I can tell you ! With all due respect ( which is codespeak for no respect whatsoever  ), ya need to get away from that cold highland place that's home and actually live in the subtropics.... Temperate Oceanic is lightyears away from being subtropical.... Oh and the Batemans Bay site has shitloads of missing data between 2012 and 2023 so is likely slightly warmer than whats in the Wiki climate box. Subropical generally means 'year round warmth' in my way of thinking.... not extra hot or oppressive per se, ( that would be 'tropical'....) , but as a bare minimum, some winter warmth.... Bateman's Bay on the southern NSW coast doesnt much have it other than the periodic heatwaves that once in a while affect the coastal regions in the summer months. |
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Post by massiveshibe on Aug 13, 2023 3:17:35 GMT -5
I draw the line at the coldest month averaging below 10C. Seriously ? a place with a yearly max mean of 21.8c and a yearly mean min 10c is 'subfuckentropical ?. C'mon now... thats an annual mean of 15.9c.... they ain't growing fuck all subtropical plants there I can tell you ! There are palms tree in the city I live even with an average temperature of 8C in July. |
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Post by greysrigging on Aug 13, 2023 4:33:39 GMT -5
Seriously ? a place with a yearly max mean of 21.8c and a yearly mean min 10c is 'subfuckentropical ?. C'mon now... thats an annual mean of 15.9c.... they ain't growing fuck all subtropical plants there I can tell you ! There are palms tree in the city I live even with an average temperature of 8C in July. You do know that there are endemic palms native to colder climates in Europe and China... yeah ? |
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Post by firebird1988 on Aug 13, 2023 6:39:23 GMT -5
Between Sydney and Batemans Bay, my definition of subtropical is coldest month between 6°C and 17.9°C, and with 4+ months 20°C+. Batemans Bay and Merimbula would be "warm oceanic", which has the coldest month also between 6°C and 17.9°C, but with 0 to 3 months 20°C+
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Post by Ethereal on Aug 13, 2023 6:46:13 GMT -5
Between Sydney and Batemans Bay, my definition of subtropical is coldest month between 6°C and 17.9°C, and with 4+ months 20°C+. Batemans Bay and Merimbula would be "warm oceanic", which has the coldest month also between 6°C and 17.9°C, but with 0 to months 20°C+ that Gulaga National Park/Mount Dromedary near Narooma is the southernmost limit of NSW that features a subtropical rainforest.  |
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Post by desiccatedi85 on Aug 13, 2023 8:57:12 GMT -5
Coffs Harbour, Taree, and Sydney are subtropical. Batemans Bay and Merrimbula I’d classify as warm oceanic, not subtropical, due to the mild to warm (not hot) summers.
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Post by cawfeefan on Aug 13, 2023 9:10:45 GMT -5
I draw the line at the coldest month averaging below 10C. Seriously ? a place with a yearly max mean of 21.8c and a yearly mean min 10c is 'subfuckentropical ?. C'mon now... thats an annual mean of 15.9c.... they ain't growing fuck all subtropical plants there I can tell you ! With all due respect ( which is codespeak for no respect whatsoever ), ya need to get away from that cold highland place that's home and actually live in the subtropics.... Temperate Oceanic is lightyears away from being subtropical.... Oh and the Batemans Bay site has shitloads of missing data between 2012 and 2023 so is likely slightly warmer than whats in the Wiki climate box. Subropical generally means 'year round warmth' in my way of thinking.... not extra hot or oppressive per se, ( that would be 'tropical'....) , but as a bare minimum, some winter warmth.... Bateman's Bay on the southern NSW coast doesnt much have it other than the periodic heatwaves that once in a while affect the coastal regions in the summer months. Not exactly disagreeing with you but you just reminded me of something - There's two homes on the next street over that grow bananas And I don't consider us subtropical |
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Post by massiveshibe on Aug 13, 2023 11:30:52 GMT -5
There are palms tree in the city I live even with an average temperature of 8C in July. You do know that there are endemic palms native to colder climates in Europe and China... yeah ? Yes. They are endemic to subtropical and warm temperate Southern Europe and Southeastern China. |
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Post by greysrigging on Aug 13, 2023 15:55:27 GMT -5
You do know that there are endemic palms native to colder climates in Europe and China... yeah ? Yes. They are endemic to subtropical and warm temperate Southern Europe and Southeastern China. Trachycarpus fortunei, This plant has been cultivated in China and Japan for thousands of years. This makes tracking its natural range difficult. It is believed to originate in central China (Hubei southwards), southern Japan (Kyushu), south to northern Myanmar and northern India, growing at altitudes of 100–2,400 m (328–7,874 ft). Due to its widespread use as an ornamental plant, the palm has become naturalised in southern regions of Switzerland, and has become an invasive species of concern. Windmill palm is one of the hardiest palms. It tolerates cool, moist summers as well as cold winters, as it grows at much higher altitudes than other species, up to 2,400 m (7,874 ft) in the mountains of southern China. However, it is not the northernmost naturally occurring palm in the world, as European fan palm (Chamaerops humilis) grows further north in the Mediterranean |
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Post by Ethereal on Aug 13, 2023 21:47:18 GMT -5
Yes. They are endemic to subtropical and warm temperate Southern Europe and Southeastern China. Trachycarpus fortunei, This plant has been cultivated in China and Japan for thousands of years. This makes tracking its natural range difficult. It is believed to originate in central China (Hubei southwards), southern Japan (Kyushu), south to northern Myanmar and northern India, growing at altitudes of 100–2,400 m (328–7,874 ft). Due to its widespread use as an ornamental plant, the palm has become naturalised in southern regions of Switzerland, and has become an invasive species of concern. Windmill palm is one of the hardiest palms. It tolerates cool, moist summers as well as cold winters, as it grows at much higher altitudes than other species, up to 2,400 m (7,874 ft) in the mountains of southern China. However, it is not the northernmost naturally occurring palm in the world, as European fan palm (Chamaerops humilis) grows further north in the Mediterranean I do agree that we shouldn't (always) equate and synonymize palm trees with "subtropical" (or even use plants as examples to determine if a climate is "subtropical"), especially when such palms (as the one you mentioned) grows in as far as Switzerland. Btw, I've also heard of palm species growing in southern England. Does this mean now this part of England is subtropical? I have a few arrowhead vines ( Syngonium podophyllum) and Monsteras in my yard. These are tropical jungle plants and yet they thrive in western Sydney, where mornings can dip to 1C. This doesn't mean we're a tropical climate now. Lmao. |
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Post by longaotian on Aug 14, 2023 2:30:09 GMT -5
I've always thought north of Newcastle as being subtropical and South of Nowra being Oceanic. In between I would say is transitional.
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Post by greysrigging on Aug 14, 2023 4:01:15 GMT -5
^^Yeah...I would agree with that....^^
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Post by paddy234 on Aug 14, 2023 9:38:33 GMT -5
I've always thought north of Newcastle as being subtropical and South of Nowra being Oceanic. In between I would say is transitional. In Western Australia the transitional portion is Csb. This is where the subtropical high system has some effect on it's precipitation but to much less effect and it is still very much temperate. Just right on the boundary. Once one goes into Csa one is now living In a climate heavily affected and shaped by a subtropical high pressure system. It doesn't get anymore evident than that. Sydney likewise gets most of it's rainfall in the warmer months particularly late summer and early autumn. Therefore while not being as humid as the likes of Brisbane is still a humid subtropical climate affected by the subtropical system which brings warm air from the tropics during the warmer months |
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Must be a telepathic thing. Hehehe
), ya need to get away from that cold highland place that's home and actually live in the subtropics....
