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Post by southathens on Mar 2, 2024 16:49:29 GMT -5
I'm no expert but these palms don't look healthy. The coco is still young. I mean obviously it will take a toll because Lindos is not an ideal area for cocos. Now how can you tell about the other palms? They are not even fully visible on the pic. |
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Post by Ariete on Mar 2, 2024 16:57:32 GMT -5
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Post by Steelernation on Mar 2, 2024 18:31:48 GMT -5
Considering its colder than these averages, no
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Post by Metsfan257 on Mar 2, 2024 18:38:23 GMT -5
Considering its colder than these averages, no Even with these averages, no. |
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Post by southathens on Mar 2, 2024 19:30:39 GMT -5
Considering its colder than these averages, no It's not colder than these averages. It's the real averages unless you fall for Marcello's crap logic that somehow the totally different areas in terms or geography and orography with different types of stations can somehow compare to the Kastellorizo station. Even the closest station Kas is at 153 meters altitude in the interior of the city with a different type of met station and for totally different time spans. He compares 30 years vs 6 years. Effectively only 1.5 year of parallel functioning (Sep 2018- Dec 2020). All that at a distance of over 7 km's between the 2 areas. Comparing the fan aspirated WMO station in Kastellorizo at 4m altitude which is an island with huge maritime influences whose station is totally blocked by hills and mountains at NW and entirely from the south vs a passive station 7 km's away at 153 meters in the interior of the city, ignoring also the mediating effect of the Med and the fohn winds for only 1.5 year of parallel functioning is frankly a leap of logic. |
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Post by southathens on Mar 2, 2024 19:36:29 GMT -5
Considering its colder than these averages, no Even with these averages, no. Lindos with similar averages has done it and even Paphos with considerable lower averages... |
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Post by Beercules on Mar 2, 2024 19:41:31 GMT -5
That palm looks like it's barely hanging on. And it looks like every attempt has been made there to create a warm as possible "microclimate". Cheating.
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Post by southathens on Mar 2, 2024 19:44:56 GMT -5
That palm looks like it's barely hanging on. And it looks like every attempt has been made there to create a warm as possible "microclimate". Cheating. Its outside though. In any case I reckon its fine to ''cheat'' or protect a coco that is asked to survive in an almost completely hostile climate. |
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Post by Steelernation on Mar 2, 2024 19:52:00 GMT -5
a coco that is asked to survive in an almost completely hostile climate. Well there’s your answer |
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Post by Steelernation on Mar 2, 2024 19:52:53 GMT -5
It's not colder than these averages. It's the real averages unless you fall for Marcello's crap logic that somehow the totally different areas in terms or geography and orography with different types of stations can somehow compare to the Kastellorizo station. The averages are the 6 most recent years, of course it’s colder than that on average. |
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Post by southathens on Mar 2, 2024 19:56:36 GMT -5
It's not colder than these averages. It's the real averages unless you fall for Marcello's crap logic that somehow the totally different areas in terms or geography and orography with different types of stations can somehow compare to the Kastellorizo station. The averages are the 6 most recent years, of course it’s colder than that on average. How can you accurately predict that? Greece and the whole south Med have had the warmest years since records began. Especially the past decade. One record after the other. If anything with this crap global warming Greece's climate is to heat up exponentially logic dictates. |
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Post by Steelernation on Mar 2, 2024 21:28:14 GMT -5
How can you accurately predict that? Greece and the whole south Med have had the warmest years since records began. Especially the past decade. One record after the other. If anything with this crap global warming Greece's climate is to heat up exponentially logic dictates. If the last decade have all been the warmest years, then if you used proper 30 year averages it would be colder than the past six years |
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Post by greysrigging on Mar 2, 2024 21:47:51 GMT -5
Perth climate data since 1900.... which goes a long way towards explaining climatically why successfully growing a coconut to maturity outdoors in the ground is 'problematic'.  1901-1930:  1931-1960:  1961-1990:   1994-2024:  Its the coolness and wetness of the May-Sept period that the Coconut doesnt like. They especially dont like cold and wet feet and Med climates are exacty opposite climatically of the habitats they have succeessfully colonised world wide. Perth has sandy well draining soils, which has helped the few palm enthusiasts I know there with their attempts at growing coconuts. But the 3 winter month means of 8.4c/19.0c ( 13.7c ) and 395mm of cool rain doesnt help... And the 5 'cooler' months May-Sept means are 9.0c/21.8c ( 15.7c ) and 562.9mm. So in Perth's case, simply a bit too cool for too long. Most coconut growers/enthusiasts concurr with the winter warmth aspect being very important with 'zone pushing' coconuts. With climate change etc, its predominantly about a warming climate, but also many more extreme events which can include heat and cold extremes. The coconut growers on South Padre Island, Texas, and Central Florida know this too well.... Good luck with having a go there in the Greek Islands, I wish y'all well..... |
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Post by caspase8 on Mar 3, 2024 1:26:58 GMT -5
Yeah but average lows both in Sydney and Perth during the coldest months are considerably lower than Kastellorizo. You do get occasionally very cold minimums compared to south Greek islands.
I don't think lows are as important for coconut palms as highs and the precipitation pattern. Here in Australia, coconut palms grow and fruit quite comfortably on the Sunshine Coast despite sub 10C average lows in winter and sub 5C being a not uncommon occurrence. They also grow reasonably well down to Coffs Harbour with average winter lows around 8C. The difference between the Australian locations and the Greek islands is that Eastern coastal Aussie winters are relatively dry, very sunny, highs are warm (~19C in Coffs, ~21C in the Sunshine Coast) and spring warms up quite quickly. With this sort of a setup, you can have coconuts thriving with relatively cool lows in winter.
Unfortunately for your Greek island winters seem to be long and wet with relatively cool highs, which is why coconuts would struggle there. Also I know this has been mentioned ad nauseum but winters would be much cooler than your weatherbox suggests given the short and recent PoR (maybe that'll eventually sink in).
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Post by greysrigging on Mar 3, 2024 2:48:02 GMT -5
Yeah but average lows both in Sydney and Perth during the coldest months are considerably lower than Kastellorizo. You do get occasionally very cold minimums compared to south Greek islands.
I don't think lows are as important for coconut palms as highs and the precipitation pattern. Here in Australia, coconut palms grow and fruit quite comfortably on the Sunshine Coast despite sub 10C average lows in winter and sub 5C being a not uncommon occurrence. They also grow reasonably well down to Coffs Harbour with average winter lows around 8C. The difference between the Australian locations and the Greek islands is that Eastern coastal Aussie winters are relatively dry, very sunny, highs are warm (~19C in Coffs, ~21C in the Sunshine Coast) and spring warms up quite quickly. With this sort of a setup, you can have coconuts thriving with relatively cool lows in winter.
Unfortunately for your Greek island winters seem to be long and wet with relatively cool highs, which is why coconuts would struggle there. Also I know this has been mentioned ad nauseum but winters would be much cooler than your weatherbox suggests given the short and recent PoR (maybe that'll eventually sink in).
Correct... its the cool wet winters that are the issue in Med climates... Coconuts (Cocos nucifera) don't like cold wet feet... especially 3 to 5 months of the year.... that is the issue. Mins sub 10c they will handle ok providing the day is sunny and dry.... prolonged cool and cloudy/wet is not their friend. |
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Post by southathens on Mar 3, 2024 6:55:28 GMT -5
How can you accurately predict that? Greece and the whole south Med have had the warmest years since records began. Especially the past decade. One record after the other. If anything with this crap global warming Greece's climate is to heat up exponentially logic dictates. If the last decade have all been the warmest years, then if you used proper 30 year averages it would be colder than the past six years We cant retrospectively use the data of a non existent station. Obviously we need to calculate from now on and well into the future. I am expecting with global warming whenever we get 30 years of data we will obviously have much hotter averages. |
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Post by southathens on Mar 3, 2024 7:04:02 GMT -5
Yeah but average lows both in Sydney and Perth during the coldest months are considerably lower than Kastellorizo. You do get occasionally very cold minimums compared to south Greek islands.
Unfortunately for your Greek island winters seem to be long and wet with relatively cool highs, which is why coconuts would struggle there.
We have locations with higher winter average maxes in South Crete and very mild minimums at the same time. Below the data of Psari Forada. A Davis station from the Creta Weather Network.  |
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Post by southathens on Mar 3, 2024 7:09:23 GMT -5
Yeah but average lows both in Sydney and Perth during the coldest months are considerably lower than Kastellorizo. You do get occasionally very cold minimums compared to south Greek islands.
Also I know this has been mentioned ad nauseum but winters would be much cooler than your weatherbox suggests given the short and recent PoR (maybe that'll eventually sink in).
I am not sure about that and the point I make is that winters are hotting up in Greece steadily the past decade. In any case did you see Kasos with 15 years of data and similar winter averages with Kastellorizo? Also Kasos has a much drier climate. Generally speaking we don't get this pattern of endless rainy weather during the winter. The majority of winter precipitation especially in our south isles falls within just 2-3 days per month during storms and then its back to sunny. It's half the normal 30 years period. Usually minimal changes are to be expected when we reach 15 years of data coverage.  |
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Post by southathens on Mar 3, 2024 7:29:52 GMT -5
The coconut growers on South Padre Island, Texas, and Central Florida know this too well.... Good luck with having a go there in the Greek Islands, I wish y'all well..... Yeah but Texas and Central Florida can get very low absolute minimums. I mean they even beat central Greece with their crazy abs minimums. The south Greek islands are nowhere near such extreme absolute minimums. Also our winters are generally sunny in the south. Especially in Lindos where we currently have the first outdoors surviving coconut tree we get over 3100 hours of sunshine annually according to Greece's national met office weather Atlas. I mean I don't know if that plays a role for its survival. You are right it's definitely ''zone pushing'' and the climate is generally hostile but we can't never know until we try... |
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Post by southathens on Mar 3, 2024 7:47:26 GMT -5
For anyone living in the south Greek islands we have prepared a detailed guide on growing cocos. We have adjusted the guide to fit the Greek isles climate. Currently we consider the best candidate locations to be coastal Kasos, south coastal Karpathos and Kastellorizo. Also coastal areas of Rhodes even as north as the port of Rhodes might stand a chance. We had contacted the local press in an effort to attract interest for locals who might see this endeavour favorably. Trouble is these islands have very few inhabitants. Only Rhodes has a sizeable population in the winter and it's no luck that Rhodes managed the first surviving outdoor coco in Greece. I mean they have easy market access to cocos, great infrastructure and many people living over there. So stats and reality might actually favor Rhodes to even milder winter locations in Greece. Here is the guide. It's in Greek but you can google translate it and you will get a decent result www.karpathiakanea.gr/cocos-nucifera-odigos-kaliergias/ |
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